REO's new Tier List

NothingRhymesWithCircus

NothingRhymesWithCircus

New member
Well, since REO and Tom Brady's old tier lists became the "official" tier list of the community up until right now, I thought I might post REO's new tier list that he posted up just recently.
Some really.... really interesting things on here and some things I don't necessarily agree with.

Remember that these tier lists are based off character matchups and character potential at the highest level of play. Also notice that no character is put under A tier, meaning that every character is viable to be used in tournament play.

New List:
Top Tier:
Reptile, Cyrax, Kung Lao, Raiden

Upper Mid Tier:
Kabal, Nightwolf, Johnny Cage, Sub-Zero, Kitana, Sektor, Liu Kang, Jade, Mileena, Skarlet

Mid Tier:
Smoke, Cyber Sub-Zero, Kano, Ermac, Noob, Sonya, Shang Tsung

Lower Tier:
Sindel, Scorpion, Jax, Quan Chi

Bottom Tier:
Sheeva, Baraka, Stryker



Old tier list before big patches:

Top / S Tier (in no particular order)
Kung Lao, Sub Zero, Jade, Nightwolf, Raiden, Cyber Sub Zero, Johnny Cage, Reptile, Kano

Upper Mid / A+ Tier (in no particular order)
Liu Kang, Sindel, Ermac, Noob, Smoke, Shang Tsung, Kabal, Kitana

Mid / A Tier (in no particular order)
Scorpion, Mileena, Sektor, Cyrax, Sonya, Stryker, Sheeva, Baraka

Low Tier / A- (in no particular order)
Jax, Quan Chi



What do you all think? Discuss.
 
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Looks about right although I'm not too sure about Jax taking a spot in S+. There's no doubt he has crazy potential in the right hands, and a lot of tools after he got patched, but he suffers GREATLY from being zoned. Even more so than Johnny, and that's pretty bad. Other then that, Cyrax has ridiculous zoning with 3 different projectiles, great anti-zoning with teleport, and very high damaging combos. As well as the ability to drain meter. Reptile speaks for himself, haha.

As for S tier, I would switch Smoke with Quan Chi who is in the last tier (wtf?). Smoke is very, very predictable. No mixup game whatsoever, which is a HUGE part of this game. Pretty much just eat his BnBs and punish. His teleport and smoke bombs are both SUPER easy to see coming and punish. Just doesn't seem like he has as many tools as everyone else.

It's a pretty solid list, but there are some underused characters that can be pretty deadly if used correctly. My biggest example would be Stryker. He will win 9/10 projectiles wars with his gun, and has his grenades for people trying to jump the gunshots. As well as a decent mixup game, and fairly high damaging combos. He's probably top 3 best anti-zoners in the game following Smoke and Kenshi. No one has really used him to his highest potential it seems.
 

Lets not forget Jax's 77-120% juggles with his EX ground pound reset.
Plus Ground Pound Cancel.
+ his awesome Oki game and frame advantage on block on his rush punch.

I actually believe it. Literally the only things I don't agree with on the list are Quan Chi, Kano, Kung Lao, and Reptile's placings. But overall its pretty well thought out I'd say. In my honest opinion Kung Lao is still definitely #1 though.

I agree with Stryker, Sheeva, and Baraka being the lowest, but I wouldn't associate them with QC even if his wakeup options are subpar.

back said:
But didn't Cyrax get neutered?
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He still has some ridiculously high damage juggles. He still has bomb trap(even though its a mixup now). And he is still a monster. He is definitely top 3.
 
Jax is S+ because of his block infinite and his 100% wall combos. I though REO was trolling but then he posted a video showing the block inf.

Was the EX forceball glitch taken into account for Reptile?
 
DCP said:
Smoke is very, very predictable. No mixup game whatsoever, which is a HUGE part of this game. Pretty much just eat his BnBs and punish. His teleport and smoke bombs are both SUPER easy to see coming and punish. Just doesn't seem like he has as many tools as everyone else.
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I posted why Smoke was beast in the other thread, but I might as well post it here to for the discussion.

Smoke's biggest strength is his ability to trick the opponent into free jumpin mixups.


Smoke Jumps In on his opponent...:

1. Smoke could Teleport-Punch in the air and have it whiff but he will end up right behind the opponent.
Why it's good: If the opponent decided to do ANYTHING to antiair, Smoke will end up behind them and will be at the advantage after he lands from his whiffed telepunch. This means free mixup. Even if the opponent doesn't anti-air, Smoke is still able to block most attacks before they hit him because of his fast recovery on his whiffed air teleportpunches.
Also, if they decided to jump backwards in reaction of Smoke's jump in then they'd eat the teleport punch.


2. Smoke jumps in and does an airpunch into a free mixup
Why it's good: Using the fear of the Smoke whiffed air teleportpunch mixup, Smoke could scare the opponent into NOT anti airing and NOT jumping when they see him jump. This means that he could land these free jump ins easily.

3. Jump in Kick Option Select(99% OF PLAYERS ARE TOTALLY UNAWARE OF THIS AMAZING ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS OPTION)
What it is: Everyone knows that if Smoke hits a jumpkick and presses the grab button right afterward that the jumpkick links into the airgrab. Everyone should also know that if the jumpkick is blocked and you press the grab button afterward still that the grab won't come out at all, so it becomes an 100% safe option. This is actually the most commonly known option select in the game.(option selecting means doing something and having the unknown opponent's reaction determine what actually happens)

What people don't know though is Smoke's CRAZY option select because of this though. If Smoke hits the very top of the opponent's head with his jumpkick, presses grab afterward, THEN DOES TELEPORTPUNCH RIGHT AFTER THE GRAB in fast succession..... you just got one of the best option selects in the game...:

1. If the opponent gets hit by the hopkick then the airgrab will link into it.
2. If the hopkick is blocked then the TELEPORT PUNCH will come out instead, whiff an inch from the opponent's head(dodging any kind of counterattack or jump away), then Smoke gets a free mixup.


MKBlade said:
Jax is S+ because of his block infinite and his 100% wall combos. I though REO was trolling but then he posted a video showing the block inf.
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The Reptile glitch was probably considered into the list. Do you mind putting up REO's Jax block infinite here MKBlade? I haven't seen it.
 
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NothingRhymesWithCircus said:

Lets not forget Jax's 77-120% juggles with his EX ground pound reset.
Plus Ground Pound Cancel.
+ his awesome Oki game and frame advantage on block on his rush punch.

I actually believe it. Literally the only things I don't agree with on the list are Quan Chi, Kano, and Reptile's placings. But overall its pretty well thought out I'd say.

I agree with Stryker, Sheeva, and Baraka being the lowest, but I wouldn't associate them with QC even if his wakeup options are subpar.
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He's a beast no doubt, but none of those things take away his ability to get zoned easily. His Ex Superman Punch is pretty much the only way to get around a good zoner, and that takes away one bar every time he has to use it. From that video it's fairly obvious he THRIVES off his bar and enhanced moves. If he gets in up close or even midrange there's no doubt he's a threat. He's just too much like Johnny with the zoning part. The difference with him and JC though, is that Johnny can hold his own without meter. Jax struggles to barely get over 30% with no bar. Those combos are sick, and deadly, but the chances he'll have full bar or even 2 bars against a good zoner is VERY rare. I think that's the biggest factor one should look at when creating a tier list. How do they respond to each time of game. If he has amazing pressure but VERY below par anti-zoning I don't think he deserves a top spot. Especially when most of his crazy damaging strings rely on bar. A bar he 95% won't have.

NothingRhymesWithCircus said:
I posted why Smoke was beast in the other thread, but I might as well post it here to for the discussion.

Smoke's biggest strength is his ability to trick the opponent into free jumpin mixups.


2. Smoke jumps in and does an airpunch into a free mixup
Why it's good: Using the fear of the Smoke whiffed air teleportpunch mixup, Smoke could scare the opponent into NOT anti airing and NOT jumping when they see him jump. This means that he could land these free jump ins easily.

3. Jump in Kick Option Select(99% OF PLAYERS ARE TOTALLY UNAWARE OF THIS AMAZING ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS OPTION)
What it is: Everyone knows that if Smoke hits a jumpkick and presses the grab button right afterward that the jumpkick links into the airgrab. Everyone should also know that if the jumpkick is blocked and you press the grab button afterward still that the grab won't come out at all, so it becomes an 100% safe option. This is actually the most commonly known option select in the game.(option selecting means doing something and having the unknown opponent's reaction determine what actually happens)

What people don't know though is Smoke's CRAZY option select because of this though. If Smoke hits the very top of the opponent's head with his jumpkick, presses grab afterward, THEN DOES TELEPORTPUNCH RIGHT AFTER THE GRAB in fast succession..... you just got one of the best option selects in the game...:

1. If the opponent gets hit by the hopkick then the airgrab will link into it.
2. If the hopkick is blocked then the TELEPORT PUNCH will come out instead, whiff an inch from the opponent's head(dodging any kind of counterattack or jump away), then Smoke gets a free mixup.
Click to expand...

I guess that's pretty sick, and I'll admit I didn't know that. This only works int he air though right? Because Jump in kicks are SUPER easy to whiff and if your character has an input launcher (Johnny's B+3, Kenshi's D,B+1) it's game over.
 
I'd like to see Tom Brady's new tier list. He's been quoted as saying that Mileena is top, and that she's better than Kitana.
 
DCP said:
Looks about right although I'm not too sure about Jax taking a spot in S+. There's no doubt he has crazy potential in the right hands, and a lot of tools after he got patched, but he suffers GREATLY from being zoned. Even more so than Johnny, and that's pretty bad. Other then that, Cyrax has ridiculous zoning with 3 different projectiles, great anti-zoning with teleport, and very high damaging combos. As well as the ability to drain meter. Reptile speaks for himself, haha.

As for S tier, I would switch Smoke with Quan Chi who is in the last tier (wtf?). Smoke is very, very predictable. No mixup game whatsoever, which is a HUGE part of this game. Pretty much just eat his BnBs and punish. His teleport and smoke bombs are both SUPER easy to see coming and punish. Just doesn't seem like he has as many tools as everyone else.

It's a pretty solid list, but there are some underused characters that can be pretty deadly if used correctly. My biggest example would be Stryker. He will win 9/10 projectiles wars with his gun, and has his grenades for people trying to jump the gunshots. As well as a decent mixup game, and fairly high damaging combos. He's probably top 3 best anti-zoners in the game following Smoke and Kenshi. No one has really used him to his highest potential it seems.
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Agree Stryker should be higher. I've done terrible things with him to great players, that garnered me naaaaaaaasty comments.
 
A very...interesting list...REO is far more knowledgeable and skillful than myself, but some things still confuse me. Jax has way more potential than most people give him credit for but I think that's pretty excessive without some kind of buff. Maybe he just needs more time for people to get a handle on him, but at the moment...S+ seems a bit off-kilter. Smoke seems a bit high for reasons I've listed a number of other places. I think he's sleeping on Quan Chi a bit, but I'm glad to see him giving respect to Jade. I really think Jade is gonna be discovered in a big way soon and really wreck some people. I'm sure I could inquire as to many of the finer details of the list (as is always the case lol), but I do like many of the broad strokes.
 
TedMoon said:
No, he's better. Not for any of those fancy combos but for this very simple one.


Discovered by CDjr.
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Hmm, well he could only nail you with this if you're stand blocking originally though. Still beastly and interesting though. Not nearly as broken as it sounded though, if you get hit by the 2,1xxgotcha it does less than 20% so it's not too game breaking. Still...... very scary.
 
REPTILE 0009 said:
I'd like to see Tom Brady's new tier list. He's been quoted as saying that Mileena is top, and that she's better than Kitana.
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Haha, Mileena is MUCH better than Kitana bro. Mileena is the most unpredictable, trickest, and best mixup character in this game. Combine that with the ability to make even her unsafe moves safe (through use of her sais) and you've got a BEAST.
 
REPTILE 0009 said:
I'd like to see Tom Brady's new tier list. He's been quoted as saying that Mileena is top, and that she's better than Kitana.
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I'd like to see Tom's new list too just for the two viewpoints like the original tier lists were.

The comparison between both lists is what made the original two lists feel so accurate.

DCP said:
Haha, Mileena is MUCH better than Kitana bro. Mileena is the most unpredictable, trickest, and best mixup character in this game. Combine that with the ability to make even her unsafe moves safe (through use of her sais) and you've got a BEAST.
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Yea, and the fact that she could make her hitbox so small with all her moves.
And.... her D4 is..... um..... yea..... it's the best poke in the game.
 
It's good to see a not-so-used character in the S+ Tier (Jax). But honestly I don't agree with Cyrax being S+ tier after the bomb trap was removed. I also swear that NRS did something else to him without letting us know because even with the MK3 skin that has the bomb trap he just feels off. The bomb trap made up for his shitty normals mixup game. I also have NO IDEA how Cyrax could have moved from A tier to S+ tier with the removal of the bomb trap. Explain that one?

Kung Lao should not be in any tier other than God Tier.

I'd like to see Tom's list, because I trust his opinion way more.
 
DCP said:
I guess that's pretty sick, and I'll admit I didn't know that. This only works int he air though right? Because Jump in kicks are SUPER easy to whiff and if your character has an input launcher (Johnny's B+3, Kenshi's D,B+1) it's game over.
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Oops, when I was originally reposting that I left out the first option. Reread the post, I added the first option in.
It's what would punish what you posted. He's sick, just not many Smoke players use him correctly.
 
Immortal Reaver said:
It's good to see a not-so-used character in the S+ Tier (Jax). But honestly I don't agree with Cyrax being S+ tier after the bomb trap was removed. I also swear that NRS did something else to him without letting us know because even with the MK3 skin that has the bomb trap he just feels off. The bomb trap made up for his shitty normals mixup game. I also have NO IDEA how Cyrax could have moved from A tier to S+ tier with the removal of the bomb trap. Explain that one?

Kung Lao should not be in any tier other than God Tier.

I'd like to see Tom's list, because I trust his opinion way more.
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Yeah I don't really respect REO's opinion much. To me it seems like he just tries to use characters with an obvious flaw (Like Quan when he has that Rune Trap shit) REO would get his ass handed to him, but some how end up winning through use of a rune trap infinite. Now that it's gone Quan gets pushed ALL the way down to last tier? Nah.
 
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