Scorp, Mil, JC, and Sub's Playstyles and Normal Move Properties

NothingRhymesWithCircus said:
Added this to the OP:

"OH! ALSO! Jumping kicks can be blocked high and low. But all the jumping PUNCHES hit people while they are blocking and ducking. Mindgames."



Lets say I'm johnny cage and I throw out a frame advantage move.
If you block it then IMMEDIATELY afterwards do your quickest move and *I* as Johnny do the same quickest move. Johnny's would land. Not yours. Frame advantage moves on block are used to trick your opponent into thinking they are safe to attack, when in reality they aren't. The frame advantage isn't too big. But in a pro players hands this could be epicly dangerous. Understand?
Click to expand...

sounds good but i dont understand, maybe if i knew what a frame advantage move was it would make sence, whats a frame advantage move?
 
Wow! Thanks a lot for this, Circus, +rep for you. And could you this for more characters once the game is out, if it's not asking too much? ;)

Mileena seems to fit my gameplay style better, I prefer long range style.
 
Good write up. I'm pretty new to fighting games and you actually cleared up a few of my questions about frame advantage lol, so I'll thank you for that too.
 
rocky said:
sounds good but i dont understand, maybe if i knew what a frame advantage move was it would make sence, whats a frame advantage move?
Click to expand...

Let me elaborate a little deeper.
Normally, when you block an enemy's attack and they are left right in your face the person blocking is at the advantage by a few frames. This means that the time it takes for the enemy who attacked to recover from the attack animation is longer than the time it takes for you to let go of your block. So if after you blocked his move, if you both tried doing a move of the same speed, the person who BLOCKED would land his and the other guy would get hit. But frame advantage moves keep the person that attacked the person's gaurd at a still slight advantage.
 
Good Stuff dude!! I was hoping you would post this soon.


My question is do the characters feel unique despite some universal normals?

Do the universal normals have unique properties on them?

Do you think this games has alot of depth potential?

Sorry if this is too much.
 
One quick question..

How do you perform Breakers?

I know it's 2/3rds of meter but what Button(s) is it?
All the MK game's I ever played never had them (MK1,2,3)
 
About Shang Tsungs x-ray move and the enemy looking like Meat. Perhaps that is an effect of one of ST's special moves? He steals your flesh and leaves you looking like a douchebag
 
PS3Scrawny said:
One quick question..

How do you perform Breakers?

I know it's 2/3rds of meter but what Button(s) is it?
All the MK game's I ever played never had them (MK1,2,3)
Click to expand...

I haven't played the demo, but in the 3D trilogy and MK vs. DC, it was forward + block.
 
Misfortune said:
Good Stuff dude!! I was hoping you would post this soon.


My question is do the characters feel unique despite some universal normals?

Do the universal normals have unique properties on them?

Do you think this games has alot of depth potential?

Sorry if this is too much.
Click to expand...

Yea they look ridiculously unique. I didn't even expect it.

Some people's sweeps are slower and more awkward than others but all uppercuts seem the same. All jabs are different despite what I had initially thought. Mileena's jab is bad, but Johnny's is beastly fast.

And yea... the depth of this game is something fierce dude. Pro players are going to flock to this let me just throw that out there. I just wish I could play this online so I could practice some setups and stuff versus some random people. Winning against someone good in this game as a noob is an impossibility.

And yea I'm pretty sure breakers are forward block.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DCP
I'm not that cluey on the technical side of things, this was something I read on another forum and was wondering if you could give this a quick read over and over a short response -

MK3/4/whatever has dial-a-combos. Every character has a set of pre-canned combos that only they can do, using a very specific sequence of buttons. The term dial-a-combo comes from the old times in the arcades when MK3 came out and it looked like you were dialing a giant phone while hammering the combos on the machine. :)

The biggest difference with MK9, however, is that some dial-a-combos offer a BIT more flexibility because some of their hits can be cancelled into specials. As far as my inspection of the combo system goes, only the attacks mapped on square and X can cancel into specials, so if you have a dial-a-combo that uses one of these buttons, you can hit it then quickly cancel into a special (something which is entirely new to MK, to my knowledge).

The Capcom games that use the magic series can't technically be called dial-a-combo because you don't need to hit a very specific set of buttons in order for a combo to come out. In MvC3 for example, you can typically do l-m-h, or l-h, or m-h, or whatever order you wish. This brings flexibility to the combo system, where you need to learn how the system works ONCE and you can then apply it to every character. In games with dial-a-combos, you have to specifically learn every character's specific combo. (the same applies to the Aksys fighters, and most of it's kin).

Then comes the difference with MK's dial-a-combos and the systems VF and Tekken use, which could be called dial-a-combo, but they are also a bit more flexible, as not ending the strings opens up opportunities for mixups (you can delay hits, for example, whereas with MK you can't).

This is why historically MK's system, starting with dial-a-combos, isn't very flexible. MK1 and 2 were a bit more flexible because they relied exclusively on juggles, which gave an universal system (juggling) as the base as players created their combos and fooled with the system.

I'm not saying MK9 isn't good, it's that while their combo system *IS* a bit more flexible than it ever was previously, it's still NOWHERE near what other games are offering.

This guy claims the MK9 combo system is a bit lacking compared with other fighters, how do you think it compares in that regard?
 
Last edited:
fade said:
I'm not that cluey on the technical side of things, this was something I read on another forum and was wondering if you could give this a quick read over and over a short response -

MK3/4/whatever has dial-a-combos. Every character has a set of pre-canned combos that only they can do, using a very specific sequence of buttons. The term dial-a-combo comes from the old times in the arcades when MK3 came out and it looked like you were dialing a giant phone while hammering the combos on the machine. :)

The biggest difference with MK9, however, is that some dial-a-combos offer a BIT more flexibility because some of their hits can be cancelled into specials. As far as my inspection of the combo system goes, only the attacks mapped on square and X can cancel into specials, so if you have a dial-a-combo that uses one of these buttons, you can hit it then quickly cancel into a special (something which is entirely new to MK, to my knowledge).

The Capcom games that use the magic series can't technically be called dial-a-combo because you don't need to hit a very specific set of buttons in order for a combo to come out. In MvC3 for example, you can typically do l-m-h, or l-h, or m-h, or whatever order you wish. This brings flexibility to the combo system, where you need to learn how the system works ONCE and you can then apply it to every character. In games with dial-a-combos, you have to specifically learn every character's specific combo. (the same applies to the Aksys fighters, and most of it's kin).

Then comes the difference with MK's dial-a-combos and the systems VF and Tekken use, which could be called dial-a-combo, but they are also a bit more flexible, as not ending the strings opens up opportunities for mixups (you can delay hits, for example, whereas with MK you can't).

This is why historically MK's system, starting with dial-a-combos, isn't very flexible. MK1 and 2 were a bit more flexible because they relied exclusively on juggles, which gave an universal system (juggling) as the base as players created their combos and fooled with the system.

I'm not saying MK9 isn't good, it's that while their combo system *IS* a bit more flexible than it ever was previously, it's still NOWHERE near what other games are offering.

This guy claims the MK9 combo system is a bit lacking compared with other fighters, how do you think it compares in that regard?
Click to expand...

Ridiculous. This guy clearly doesn't play Tekken or VF to understand the kind of system they incorporated in MK9. Sure the dial-a-combos aren't purely for the purpose of juggling but you have to see that we don't know the exact frames on these moves yet. There might be some special properties in the second hit of a 3 hit string that we still haven't discovered. Shit... I found a couple of frame advantage moves already and I was playing for like 2 hours.

These dial-a-combos aren't just used for punishments when your opponent isn't seeing them coming. Alot of the properties I've listed in the OP clearly show that they could be used for high level mind games. In Tekken you could delay SOME moves as SOME characters, sure. But most characters relay heavily on the amount of + frames given on hit to guarantee setups. Tekken also has normal "dial-a-combo" strings that have only -1s on the second hit so you could trick your opponent by not finishing and go in for something else. Mortal Kombat isn't any different in this aspect except that there are less "dial-a-combos". Johnny's frame'tastic moves are a perfect example of this. Not only does he have frame advantage moves on block sprinkled everywhere but he has stuff like his Nut Punch that gives SOOOO many + frames on hit that the opponent is helpless(can't jump, or dash away) so Johnny is free to setup anything he wants to(unblockable, cross up, frame advantage move, grab, setup for a launch). His Nut Punch doesn't give you enough frame + on hit to land a free hit afterward but it gives you enough that you could use your imagination because they are forced to stay still for a while.

I know he isn't saying that the game isn't good. But saying "it's still NOWHERE near what other games are offering." is absolutely ridiculous. It is DEFINITELY not Street Fighter mechanics and DEFIIIIINITELY not MvC3 mechanics. This practically feels like what Tekken or VF would feel like if they were 2D with the same Mortal Kombat style and specials that we know so well. The on the ground combo system in this game is so abstract yet simple at the same time. Simple because it in essence is of course a "dial-a-combo" but abstract because of the properties that are meshed in that experienced players in time will abuse. Mix that in with the awesome launch and juggle system and we have a beautiful and unique game on our hands.

I'd straight up tell everyone if this game wasn't deep enough to hold attention in the tournament world. But this MK has actually brought something that people will notice when it is released and that is evident like crazy from this demo in my hands. All we could do is wait for the star players to shine, but I'm serious, this engine and combo system are FOR SUREEEEEEEEEEE on the same playing field as the top contending fighting games today.


EDIT: Jeez did I really type that much..... lol. Sorry about going into a frame tangent. Hope it gets across to some people who read it.
 
NothingRhymesWithCircus said:
EDIT: Jeez did I really type that much..... lol. Sorry about going into a frame tangent. Hope it gets across to some people who read it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Great response, just what I wanted to read :)

Hope you're enjoying the demo. I'm sure I will when they get around to releasing it on 360.
 
I found out how to do Mileena's back-stab move.
If you press back + triangle, she leaps to impale the sai in the opponents back.
If you do her neck bite move (back, forward + triangle) after the sai is impaled, she'll jump on the opponent and stab them with the impaled sai, instead of biting their neck.
 
NothingRhymesWithCircus said:
Let me elaborate a little deeper.
Normally, when you block an enemy's attack and they are left right in your face the person blocking is at the advantage by a few frames. This means that the time it takes for the enemy who attacked to recover from the attack animation is longer than the time it takes for you to let go of your block. So if after you blocked his move, if you both tried doing a move of the same speed, the person who BLOCKED would land his and the other guy would get hit. But frame advantage moves keep the person that attacked the person's gaurd at a still slight advantage.
Click to expand...

get it 100% now, and sounds awesome!, this also gets away from the typical block, counter, block, counter style of fighting that bores the pants off me in most fighting games and offers more 'chess like' fighting stratergy :)

do you know what other fighting games do this?,, just wondering when fighting games started doing this and what other games use this feature.

P.S best thread so far on TRMK! - im learning and everything!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top