An American NHS

Angel

New member
I'm confused and need the aid of American peeps to answer this.

Why is a NHS system bad again?

Okay, in my country (England) if you can afford to go private, you go private anyway. If not, the NHS pays for your treatment. Thats how it works. All the NHS does is enjsure no matter what background status, religion - whatever - you are entitled to healthcare, free at the very list.

6 weeks for a dentist?

This baffles me. My dad phoned up my dentist (does both private and NHS) and asked for a check up. I'll admit I have bad teeth before we start; when my mum divorced from my dad I went for two years without brushing them (it was the freedom to do them when I wanted factor) and I'm suffering because of that NOW. 2 weeks later I saw the dentist. I paid abut £20 for treatment. 2 weeks later I came back for two fillings. I paid nothing for them (this would have been £40 if so) because I was on benefits and entitled to free treatment. In fact, Brittish teeth are pretty good BECAUSE of the NHS, so this baffles me completely. ^_-

Eldery neglect?

If your old, chances are you aren't working. If your not working, you either have money for treatment already or none. Your entitled to free healthcare, ease your pains.

Only waiting list is the 6 months for operations. And this is because we're overcrowded, nothing more or less. Too many people, not enough doctors. Incidently, until recently all the doctors and nurses were moving to America to get better pay (^_-) and now they get better pay here; can we the people we trained back again America? We spent more time training doctors and nurses for you then ourselves. Even so, half of Americans by figures I've read in the past few years don't earn enough for private treatment standards anyway. Private treatmenet anyway in this country is cheap THANKS to NHS.

On top of this 50% of ALL dieases only became known once the NHS was set up. Because every illness could now seek a doctor to treat it. medically, the NHS made more advances when it opened is doors then any other set up before it. Its changed now but then it was a big thing.
 
You're absolutely right in all your points, Angel. Let me just fill you in on why Americans are so fearful of this new plan: Money, money money. The rich don't want to give up their money to pay for poor people to get health insurance, nor do they want to have to give up their own private insurance (this is what some of the people I have talked to actually believe) for a lesser public insurance. In truth, one can choose between paying for their own private insurance and their own doctors, or sign up for the public health care for free. No one is being forced to do anything.

Unfortunately, it is , in a sense, creating a form of socialization in that it would make the upper and lower classes more middle class, and this is what the elite fear so much. They'd rather hold on to their pocket change than help their neighbor get a flu shot.
 
I note on the dentist as well btw, 2 weeks would have been sooner had my dad not wanted a Tuesday morning. Otherwise, I would have seen my dentist within a week. Also, our teeth are so good that a year ot two ago the gov. said it was a waste of time + money (most of the check ups end in just a quick clean and an "okay on your way") forcing everyone into 6 months check ups and we could get away now with 1 - 2 years. Though that seems to have not happened.

One of our Tory MPs told Americans that he wouldn't wish the NHS oin anyone. Most Americans won't know the Tories are half the reason why it gets problems. The first thing every Tory gov. has done in the past is cut back on the NHS. Tories privatise everything and are very anti-gov run, event though privatising the train system is considered one of their biggest mistakes. The rail system went into decline, private companies milk their lines for all their worth then invest nothing in maintaince. Then when things go wrong, you discover the company never had money to begin with. The Tories are now saying this MP isn't a reflection on their party (their no way supporting his view).

Strickly speaking, improving the average healthcare also has benefits overall. The expenses have gone down over time, the most expenses happened within the first few decades. Now its working out cheaper then they thought becase the overall health of the nation is better now then it was when the NHS set up. Its just for the first few decades the money kept raising. Not only that, but it forced a LOT of hospitals to get their act together to become more efficant to save money instead of wasting it on silly things, on top of this created more nursing jobs.

All I know is if you mention "NHS" and the words "Needs to retire" or anything along those lines, you won't be popular politically. We simply don't like the NHS but we can't live without it. :-/
 
I can't even imagine the US having its own health care system like the UK or Canada. Just look at how the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and our Social Security system is ran. Do you want the same incompetent people to be in charge of your health care now, too? Both of those government run agencies are run like circuses.

Where would we even get the money to fund something of this magnitude? Social Security is running dry, and we don't have the money to experiment with something like this. Everyone's taxes will need to be raised even those who are completely satisfied with their private insurance and those who don't want insurance, and at a time like this, people can't afford rent or food never mind higher taxes to pay for something they may not even use.

If you think this health care system will cover all medications and doctors, you'd be fooling yourself. Brand name medications will be substituted for generic brands to save costs. A lot of people cannot take generic brands, and they'd have to stick with their private insurance and still foot the bill for a health care system they don't use. If you need surgery or treatment that is expensive, you're more than likely going to get the run-around to try different treatments that cost less just so the government can save money even if your doctor says it's mandatory that you have it done. After trying said treatments, then you may be eligible and put on a waiting list. So you have the bureaucrats playing Russian Roulette with your life.

I'm also not convinced that illegal aliens will not be able to make use of this system. A lot of them intentionally come here to be treated for their medical problems because the hospitals cannot turn them away regardless of whether they are citizens or not if something serious is wrong with them. This will only further open up abuse for the system.

The US isn't Canada, the UK, or a country in Europe. Government-run anything almost always is a disaster here. We don't have the experience with implementing and keeping up with socialist programs because we mostly rely on the private sector.
 
Ah, a good conversation. Haven't had a topic like this in a while have we? Unfortunately Kryptonite, most of your post here is just repeating the same fear-mongering that's been going around since the idea was first breathed. My opinion on the subject is drawn from far more reasonable sources.

First, there's cost. As Kryptonite correctly stated, the United States govt. has a history of mishandling funds and resources. But I can put those complaints into a single entity: bureaucracy. The reason the DMV is so slow is because it is buried beneath a landfill's worth of red tape. Why is customer turnover so low? Every person has wait to fill out forms, which must be approved, which forces one to wait again to finally receive service. By segmenting the various processing of each customer there emerges an exponential growth in wait times. For each segmentation an additional independent delay is created.

However, the red tape doesn't stop at service. Ever heard of a "cushy government job"? The kind where you don't do any work, get paid vacations, and it's impossible to get fired? The bureaucracy breeds nepotism, like tenure, or unions. The only thing it accomplishes is to keep inadequate employees employed. Which means the valley girl who files her nails while the phone rings 8 times until the machine gets it will never be replaced, or even evaluated, because that just means more forms and more hassle for the one that fills them out. And that person is likely a similarly lackluster employee.

But that's only one possible outcome from implementing a NHS. And furthermore, that's an emergent issue which only those familiar with the process could predict. The average voting American won't even consider implementation. They will consider how it affects their service and their paycheck. And it is 100% true that a NHS requires of individuals to subsidize others, who may or may not deserve it. Furthermore, I am 110% anti-socialist. I believe in individuality first, and as a corollary, that everyone is not equal. Some are luckier than others, some work harder than others, some have more skill, brains, or muscle than others. And some have better immune systems than others. My most basic outrage at NHS is the same one I have with government funded programs to help the homeless, or bank bailouts. Everyone needs to make their own way in the world. And capitalism is the most basic incentive system there is. You perform service, I pay you.

I spend a great portion of my time contemplating how to put selfless action into selfish terms. And to that end I have been very successful. My greatest question is "how can helping you help me?" I always ask it, and with careful thought, my answer is usually yes to helping out. But my decision can only be made under informed conditions. If I rely on another entity to decide how to allocate what I provide then I can never feel confident that I'm doing anything. I need a system to really WORK if my selfish desires are to be fulfilled. And providing cash in the form of taxes, donation, or otherwise to the government means I can never be sure that I receive the benefits I formulated and anticipated in my decision making process.

I guess the one thing to take away from all this is...I just don't trust people very well. And I don't give money to people I don't trust.
 
Overweight... Quit smoking... Childbearing... Dying... Drugs...

Its as much a counselling service as it is a healthcare, all of these you can get information (or should be able to) on from the NHS.

This seems to be why the media here is giving out such a "dumb American" impression I guess, esp. when you get an American say "Don't the Brittish have to wait 6 weeks to see a dentist, haven't you seen the Brittish teeth". I had the same stupidity on this forum from a member (no names please) who also had this weird warped idea too. Whats going on isn't just fear mongering, there is a fair amount of sterotyping on ideas common place in America, on what everyone THINKS a national healthcare service is like without actually experiencing it. One person say something and the rest are taking it as fact. Political driven every ounce of the way. :-/
 
Top