What character surprised/disappointed you?

Alien and Predator work because they aren't horror characters, though.
They work because both of them are warriors / hunters from their own race, and that warrior / hunter theme works well with MK.
It goes well with the warriors / fighters theme in MK.
At least that's how I see it.
Just because horror characters do Fatalities, doesn't mean that they fit well with the MK universe, at least not within the story / lore, imo.
MK is so much more than just gore and Fatalities.
 
Commander said:
Alien and Predator work because they aren't horror characters, though.
They work because both of them are warriors / hunters from their own race, and that warrior / hunter theme works well with MK.
It goes well with the warriors / fighters theme in MK.
At least that's how I see it.
Just because horror characters do Fatalities, doesn't mean that they fit well with the MK universe, at least not within the story / lore, imo.
MK is so much more than just gore and Fatalities.
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Alien and Predator are most definitely horror characters. Alien especially. Both of their original films were horror movies. Predator just had an action movie spin added to it.

Aliens and the AVP series took away some of the horror elements, but still...
 
Ricochetmatt said:
Torr and Leatherface are only similar in that they are really really dumb. But that's about it. And even so, Torr was only involved as a lackey/bodyguard to Kotal.

Who the hell is going to travel down into the deep south to find a nutty redneck to hire as a bodyguard? lol I honestly can't see how they could add Leatherface in a way that isn't forced and silly. But it is what it is.

And Jason so didn't work well. lol The only horror characters that have been incorporated well are Predator, Freddy and most likely Alien. And when I say Freddy, I am reaching a bit.
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I respect your opinions here but I disagree.

You're saying Torr and Leatherface being dumb is their only similarity? Sounds like you're just taking a shot but fine, they are both indeed dumb muscle type characters. But there's more similarities there than you see.
Torr is a lackey to Kotal. The bloody mask on his face and overrall character makes it obvious that he's one of Kotal's mindless executioners. Much like how Leatherface is to his family of psychos. Torr looks like a character who could of came from a horror movie. Maybe one of the reasons of their design was to accomadate those archetypes in the MK Universe. Drahmin (I appologize for sounding like a broken record by bringing him up again but it applies to this) was another who has that vibe, but done in a very MK way of course.

(I'm way outnumbered here, so at least give me the credit :lol:)

Agreed, I'm puzzled as how the heck they're going to incorperate Leatherface's place in the story but as I've said, I'm anxious to see what they come up with. Its definitely not impossible to come up with something good, regardless of what they end up with. I'd love to be one of their writers.

Jason was fine. But again, different opinions, so that's fine too.
I thought Freddy's story was awesome, man! Not much different than Jason's involvment. Its all fantasy/comic type of stuff to begin with. Can't forget that.

Commander said:
Alien and Predator work because they aren't horror characters, though.
They work because both of them are warriors / hunters from their own race, and that warrior / hunter theme works well with MK.
It goes well with the warriors / fighters theme in MK.
At least that's how I see it.
Just because horror characters do Fatalities, doesn't mean that they fit well with the MK universe, at least not within the story / lore, imo.
MK is so much more than just gore and Fatalities.
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Alien 1 is definiltey a horror film. Aliens is a well balanced blend of horror/sci-fi action. Alien3 is a gothic horror film. I honestly couldn't tell you what the fvck Ressurection is but it has some horror in there too. Alien is definitley a horror character. "In space, no one can hear you scream." Horrifying.

Predator I could see your argument a little more. Both Predator and Predator 2 have their horror elements in there. But no one is far off calling Predator a horror character.

But down to the main point. You're looking at these characters all wrong, bro. Its well known to us MK fans that its more than just gore. You don't even need to say it. But that doesn't mean horror characters are fitting because of gore alone (its looks great on their resume though). Freddy has his dream realm. Different realms tie in to the vast universe of MK. Freddy is easily roped in to the MK universe because of that. Freddy was fighting to protect his place as the ruler of the dream realm. That's what his story boiled down to in MK9.

Jason is a glorified lackey character. He was his mother's lackey in Friday the 13th parts 2-8. Jason Goes to Hell put a new twist to the story with the necronomicon stuff, tying him to hell more. Jason Goes to Hell's director went on to say, "he's basically hell's assassin." Really interesting considering how he becomes Liu Kang's assassin. And again he's a lackey to Freddy for a good amount of Freddy vs Jason. He fits in to MK not just because his movies are gorey.

Again, I can't speak for Leatherface because I haven't seen what they come up with yet. They haven't disappointed me yet so I'm keeping my chin up.
 
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I think the reason Pred and Alien work better than the slashers is because they're blue collar clothes-wearing middle-aged men with workshed tools for weapons. It also helps that they're generic members from their respective species, not specific people, which makes them not stick out (in a bad way) as much.

The "Jason and Leatherface aren't warriors" argument falls apart if you argue for Alien, because that thing is no warrior. Just a bloodthirsty bio-engineered animal.
 
Lord Greyjoy said:
The "Jason and Leatherface aren't warriors" argument falls apart if you argue for Alien, because that thing is no warrior. Just a bloodthirsty bio-engineered animal.
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It's still a warrior in it's own right, a drone. Like a soldier ant, you don't need a sword to be a warrior.
 
Noob-Zer013 said:
I respect your opinions here but I disagree.

You're saying Torr and Leatherface being dumb is their only similarity? Sounds like you're just taking a shot but fine, they are both indeed dumb muscle type characters. But there's more similarities there than you see.
Torr is a lackey to Kotal. The bloody mask on his face and overrall character makes it obvious that he's one of Kotal's mindless executioners. Much like how Leatherface is to his family of psychos. Torr looks like a character who could of came from a horror movie. Maybe one of the reasons of their design was to accomadate those archetypes in the MK Universe. Drahmin (I appologize for sounding like a broken record by bringing him up again but it applies to this) was another who has that vibe, but done in a very MK way of course.

(I'm way outnumbered here, so at least give me the credit :lol:)

Agreed, I'm puzzled as how the heck they're going to incorperate Leatherface's place in the story but as I've said, I'm anxious to see what they come up with. Its definitely not impossible to come up with something good, regardless of what they end up with. I'd love to be one of their writers.

Jason was fine. But again, different opinions, so that's fine too.
I thought Freddy's story was awesome, man! Not much different than Jason's involvment. Its all fantasy/comic type of stuff to begin with. Can't forget that.
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The thing with Torr though is that he's part of a symbiotic race and could be seen as something prizeworthy in the MK universe. Him and Ferra are the only characters we've seen/heard of that are symbiotic. I can totally see Kotal taking in this powerhouse of a couple to watch his back.

Leatherface is just a creepy dude from no where special on Earth who has a screwed up family and wears the faces of his victims. He isn't the "executioner" of the family. The others are all just as murderous and screwed up.

There really isn't any similarities between the two other than their stupidity. You can't even compare their strength as Torr looks like he'd destroy Leatherface with ease. Leatherface is a big dude... But he's mostly just fat. lol

The only reason Freddy works better than the other two is because he's not "just a man". He's a demon-like monster who stalks people in their dreams. He lives within the dream world (or the Dream Realm as NRS puts it). Freddy may have started off as a man, but he evolved far beyond that.

Leatherface is just a dude with a chainsaw. Jason is just a dude who refuses to stay dead. They really don't belong in this kind of story. Freddy gets a pass based on his whole "dream stalker" bit... But again, I'm reaching slightly with that.
 
Ricochetmatt said:
Alien and Predator are most definitely horror characters. Alien especially. Both of their original films were horror movies. Predator just had an action movie spin added to it.
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No, they are not.
They are action movie monsters, but they are by no means horror characters.
If Predator and the Xenomorph are horror characters, then so is the T-1000 from Terminator.

Aliens and the AVP series took away some of the horror elements, but still...
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Action + Horror - horror = Action.
Aliens and AVP are both action series, not a horror film series.

BBBLP said:
It's still a warrior in it's own right, a drone. Like a soldier ant, you don't need a sword to be a warrior.
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Precisely.
 
"Alien" is undoubtedly a horror movie. The sequels are more action orientated, but there's a reason they just made a survivial horror game about the first movie.

original.jpg
 
Commander said:
No, they are not.
They are action movie monsters, but they are by no means horror characters.
If Predator is a horror character, then so is the T-1000 from Terminator.



Action + Horror - horror = Action.
Aliens and AVP are both action series, not a horror film series.



Precisely.
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Dude, Alien was 100% a horror film. There was hardly any action in it. Aliens added the action movie spin to it, but that is not what defined the series. And then came Alien 3 which was also a horror movie. Resurrection brought back the action but also delivered a different style of horror as well.

Predator is also a horror film. If it were released today, it wouldn't be packaged as a horror movie, but it sure as hell was then. Predator 2... Also a horror movie. More than the first was.

You can argue against it all you want, but they are officially categorized as horror films.
 
Ricochetmatt said:
The thing with Torr though is that he's part of a symbiotic race and could be seen as something prizeworthy in the MK universe. Him and Ferra are the only characters we've seen/heard of that are symbiotic. I can totally see Kotal taking in this powerhouse of a couple to watch his back.

Leatherface is just a creepy dude from no where special on Earth who has a screwed up family and wears the faces of his victims. He isn't the "executioner" of the family. The others are all just as murderous and screwed up.

There really isn't any similarities between the two other than their stupidity. You can't even compare their strength as Torr looks like he'd destroy Leatherface with ease. Leatherface is a big dude... But he's mostly just fat. lol

The only reason Freddy works better than the other two is because he's not "just a man". He's a demon-like monster who stalks people in their dreams. He lives within the dream world (or the Dream Realm as NRS puts it). Freddy may have started off as a man, but he evolved far beyond that.

Leatherface is just a dude with a chainsaw. Jason is just a dude who refuses to stay dead. They really don't belong in this kind of story. Freddy gets a pass based on his whole "dream stalker" bit... But again, I'm reaching slightly with that.
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I'm mostly speaking for the type of character, and not their race or why Kotal would chose him. Torr's a killer for Kotal. Sure, you could go in depth in to how and why he's chosen but that goes beyond the point.

Never claimed Leatherface wasn't the only killer in the family but his only role in the family was to kill and butcher the meat. You can tell he was never allowed out of far from the house unless people got too close or escapes. The cook was the cook. The hitchhiker lured people in to be butchered. The cook talks about taking no pleasure in killing, though he's still a sick man whether its true or not. The hitchhiker, sure, is no doubt a killer even though you don't see any on-screen kills from him. But again, there's no doubt the one with the chainsaw was their muscle. (I'm only talking about the original film. Remake can go fvck itself even though the same pretty much applies there too)

Leatherface wasn't all that big in the original. The remake exagerates that by having him played by a meat head. Again, we're really losing touch on what my points were.

I don't disagree Torr would destroy Leatherface as far as strength. Leatherface is a regular human. I'm well aware. Those weren't the similarities I was talking about. I was mostly talking about what kind of character they are.

Also, I understand Freddy very well. I was agreeing with you there.

The others, I just don't see eye to eye with and that's a matter of opinion.

[MENTION=5028]Commander[/MENTION]

You're truly mistaken by claiming Alien is an action character. Its horror.
AvP is a garbage representation of those two characters but AvPR, though another bad film, brought the horror element back after AvP.
 
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I dunno.
They always seemed to be more sci-fi action than horror, to me.
Friday the 13th, Halloween, and A Nightmare on Elm Street were horror film series.

If it was released today it wouldn't be packaged as horror, which is exactly why I don't consider it to be horror.
I didn't consider it to be horror back then, either.
You saw the predator hunting his prey with his heat vision in the movies, so it wasn't really a horror movie that made you jump because you didn't see it coming.
You could always tell when the Pradator was about to kill someone, even if the on screen character didn't know it.

Anyways, both film series were about 2 different species of hunters / warriors, which is why I think that they fit better than Jason and Leatherface.
Despite MK having its own set of monsters and creatures, the MK creatures and monsters are good at fighting and are kombatants and aren't just regular serial killers who take down defenseless camp counselors or random strangers.
Predator is a hunter / warrior and Alien is also a warrior who fights using "hive" mentality.
 
Noob-Zer013 said:
Leatherface wasn't all that big in the original. The remake exagerates that by having him played by a meat head.

I don't disagree Torr would destroy Leatherface as far as strength. Leatherface is a regular human. I'm well aware. I don't understand why you decided to say that. Those weren't the similarities I was talking about. I was mostly talking about what kind[\i] of character they are.



The others, I just don't see eye to eye with and that's a matter of opinion.
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I said it in reference to you clumping Torr and Leatherface as muscle type characters when Leatherface is actually just supposed to be a fat guy. In most of the movies, at least.

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And don't worry. I'm not out for your blood or anything... lol We can have differing opinions. I just don't see how the two characters relate in a way that justifies Leatherface's presence in the MK world.

Commander said:
I dunno.
They always seemed to be more sci-fi action than horror, to me.
Friday the 13th, Halloween, and A Nightmare on Elm Street were horror film series.

If it was released today it wouldn't be packaged as horror, which is exactly why I don't consider it to be horror.
I didn't consider it to be horror back then, either.
You saw the predator hunting his prey with his heat vision in the movies, so it wasn't really a horror movie that made you jump because you didn't see it coming.
You could always tell when the Pradator was about to kill someone, even if the on screen character didn't know it.
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Predator never scared me, either. But I do actually know people who were terrified of those films. That being said, not finding something scary doesn't mean it isn't "horror" related. Most horror films don't have any effect on me. Friday the 13th and A Nightmare On Elm Street, for example, never scared me. Not even as a child. They're still horror movies, though.
 
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Commander said:
I dunno.
They always seemed to be more sci-fi action than horror, to me.
Friday the 13th, Halloween, and A Nightmare on Elm Street were horror film series.
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"In space, no one can hear you scream" was the tagline for that movie. That doesn't sound like horror to you? Just because it was in space instead of a spooky swamp?

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That scene murked everyone who watched it for the first time.
 
There's also the chest burster scene that horrified audiences back when the film first came out. It's a very famous sequence in the history of horror films. Not even the actors knew what to expect while filming it. Their reactions in the film were genuine.

Modern day horror films have desensitized us quite a bit over the years... But Alien was some hardcore sh** back in the day and still manages to get some scares out of people today.
 
BBBLP said:
"In space, no one can hear you scream" was the tagline for that movie. That doesn't sound like horror to you? Just because it was in space instead of a spooky swamp?

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That scene murked everyone who watched it for the first time.
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Taglines don't always portray the truth of a film.
Alien always seemed more sci-fi action than anything.

1 of the taglines for Predator was "We cannot see it, but it sees the heat of our bodys and the heat of our fear."
Despite the tagline, Predator is more sci-fi action, though.
 
Commander said:
Taglines don't always portray the truth of a film.
Alien always seemed more sci-fi action than anything.

1 of the taglines for Predator was "We cannot see it, but it sees the heat of our bodys and the heat of our fear."
Despite the tagline, Predator is more sci-fi action, though.
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Predator is not famous for it's "horror elements". But again, that doesn't mean it isn't part of the horror genre or that it didn't manage to scare anyone. The creature is still a horror movie monster. *shrug*

And really dude... There was hardly any action in Alien. They didn't have any weapons other than a flame thrower which didn't come into play until the second half of the film. It was a bunch of people running around a ship scared sh**less.
 
[MENTION=5232]Ricochetmatt[/MENTION]

Good discussion, dude. But I'd laugh if Leatherface is one of Kotal's goons.

..Actually, that's doesn't seem that bad of an idea. He's got an earthrealm Cowboy. Maybe NRS can work their magic in to how that would happen, if it does happen.

[MENTION=5028]Commander[/MENTION]

Those heat vision scenes were said by the two directors to give the film a "spooky" effect. Those scenes were meant to be scary. No doubt have characters have sci fi in their films either.

Ridley Scott (Alien's director) ironically, intended Alien to be "Texas Chainsaw Massacre in space". Go figure.
 
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