Bi han or kuai liang more likely to return in mk10?

Which one?

  • Bi Han

    Votes: 25 65.8%
  • Kuai Liang

    Votes: 13 34.2%

  • Total voters
    38
??? Noob's story is pretty garbage to be honest. He's practically just a henchmen like Ermac is in MK9. Their role in the story as of MK-> UMK3 story line. Is that of a *****. Similar to how they displayed barakka in the story mode. He just does shit he's told to do. Same goes for Ermac and Noob Saibot. They don't have any of their own ambitions.

They need to break free from "Mind control, or loyalty to master" before they can gain character development. Because we all know without this "control" They would be totally different people. And most likely not "Pure Evil"

@Ames32

That's another thing I don't understand. People scream for change, change. Yet we think they can't end the Scorpion/Sub-Zero rivalry. Quite honestly it needs to end because it has went on for toooo long.

@Critical Limit

I agree with most of what you said.

I think that characters like Ermac and Noob Saibot would have their own motivations once they "break free" of their respective leaders. In fact it's shown that they will in MK Deception.

Ermac breaks free and atones for his sins. He helps the heroes.

Noob Saibot proves himself to be evil. He loves it too.

If you are saying that this timeline is different you would be right. However, that doesn't mean their personalities should be different. Change their stories fine. However, suddenly making one a good guy or bad guy would go against their personality. Noob likes being evil even when he's seperated from Quan Chi. Ermac changed himself for the good guys and now maybe we know why. Because he had Jerrod inside of him.
 
Can I have them both?

I'd buy that for a dollar!

But if I were to choose, I pick Kuai Liang because Ice Clones is the greatest invention since the wheel. But also the cheapest since Johnny Cage nuts attack.
 
Subz 711 said:
@Ames32

That's another thing I don't understand. People scream for change, change. Yet we think they can't end the Scorpion/Sub-Zero rivalry. Quite honestly it needs to end because it has went on for toooo long.

I know what you mean. But they can't just touch on it a little bit in Mk9 and completely abandon it before Mk10. If after Mk10 they choose to change it fine but to throw 20 years away and offer no real closure between the three ninjas, would be a huge slap in the fans faces and that's not eds' Mo. IMO.
 
I know what you mean. But they can't just touch on it a little bit in Mk9 and completely abandon it before Mk10. If after Mk10 they choose to change it fine but to throw 20 years away and offer no real closure between the three ninjas, would be a huge slap in the fans faces and that's not eds' Mo. IMO.

That's why I'm saying carry the rivalry to Noob Saibot in the next game. Kuai Liang and Scorpion never had beef anyway. They had to created beef between them because Scorpion killed the original. Scorpion and Sub-Zero should team up against Noob Saibot. It needs to rest though. The rivalry of Scorpion and Sub-Zero is so outplayed it's not even funny.

@ Tarkatan Trash

That would be amazing if that was true. I would love to know that they would never make bi-han sub-zero again. They are each better in their identities. Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot.

Honestly who do you want in a game anyway?

Sub-Zero and Cyber Sub-Zero or Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot?
 
@ Tarkatan Trash

That would be amazing if that was true. I would love to know that they would never make bi-han sub-zero again. They are each better in their identities. Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot.

I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Sub-Zero was represented by Kuai Liang in more games than Bi-Han, and there is nothing anyone can say or do to refute that.
 
I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Sub-Zero was represented by Kuai Liang in more games than Bi-Han, and there is nothing anyone can say or do to refute that.

Oh, I know and completely agree with you.

I actually made a list, heck I'll do it again.

Kuai Liang as Sub-Zero: Mk2,3,4,DA,D,MK:SM,,A,MKvsDC, and two chapters in MK9.
Bi-Han: MK1,Mythologies, and a small part of MK9. No chapter at all.

Yet, people keep saying well I think I prefer Bi-Han to return. Then you ask why and it's either he's the original, mythologies, or he's more ruthless which all make zero sense to me.

Kuai Liang is ruthless, he just doesn't not give a damn like Bi-Han. He beat both Sektor and Cyrax at the same time in the original timeline. He's also been the ultimate survivalist when it comes to death. Everyone says "well, he got lucky." No, it's because he's a good guy and people help out good guys.

Someone probably would have been there to help Bi-Han from getting killed too if he wasn't such an *******. Oh wait Raiden did try that and Scorpion still saw through that shit.lol.

I just think Kuai Liang is overall more deserving of the name Sub-Zero than Bi-Han is.

Bi-Han may be the original, but like I've said that doesn't mean he's better. I think Bi-Han just fits Noob Saibot better. Noob Saibot is an amazing character in his own right and taking Bi-Han away from him would ultimately ruin that. That's why I hope when MKX rolls around they find a way to ressurect Kuai Liang and since he doesn't have a body he gets a new one similar to his old human body.

I think it makes more sense as well for Noob Saibot to end up in chaosrealm through the soulnado. If they pull the old he was saved by the elder gods trick then I will be really pissed. If they are going to start over "fresh" then do just that. Don't rehash old storylines onto people for the sake of saying it's "change". I'm also thinking of Smoke's old cyber storyline when I say that as well, we know how that ended up.
 
One reason why Mythologies is the reason I prefer Bi-Han to Kuai Liang is because of how strong he was: he defeated GODS in that game. Also, I just think he fits the identity of Sub-Zero more because of his "colder" nature. I just cannot interpret the character as a straight good guy like Kuai Liang has been shown to be. Although, don't get me wrong, Kuai Liang is still a badass, and this is exactly why I don't want him back as Sub-Zero. Why, you ask? Well, Kuai Liang only assumed the mantle of Sub-Zero to honor his late older brother, right? But since Bi-Han/Noob Saibot has pretty much denounced his own ties to his younger brother dishonored his own self by choosing to stay in the NetherRealm and serve Quan Chi and Shinnok, I feel that when he is resurrected, Kuai Liang should pursue other things in life and stand for something much greater than what Sub-Zero stood for in life rather than assume the identity of Sub-Zero yet again. I think that he should leave the title of Sub-Zero for someone else to pick up while he goes on his own path storyline-wise; by "someone else" that could mean Bi-Han or even an entirely new character?

Although, Subz 711, I gotta say, I really am appreciating your posts in here and the fact you are trying to understand why we like what we like. It makes you come off as really insightful and someone I enjoy having a conversation with :)
 
Oh, I know and completely agree with you.

I actually made a list, heck I'll do it again.

Kuai Liang as Sub-Zero: Mk2,3,4,DA,D,MK:SM,,A,MKvsDC, and two chapters in MK9.
Bi-Han: MK1,Mythologies, and a small part of MK9. No chapter at all.

Yet, people keep saying well I think I prefer Bi-Han to return. Then you ask why and it's either he's the original, mythologies, or he's more ruthless which all make zero sense to me.

Kuai Liang is ruthless, he just doesn't not give a damn like Bi-Han. He beat both Sektor and Cyrax at the same time in the original timeline. He's also been the ultimate survivalist when it comes to death. Everyone says "well, he got lucky." No, it's because he's a good guy and people help out good guys.

Someone probably would have been there to help Bi-Han from getting killed too if he wasn't such an *******. Oh wait Raiden did try that and Scorpion still saw through that shit.lol.

I just think Kuai Liang is overall more deserving of the name Sub-Zero than Bi-Han is.

Bi-Han may be the original, but like I've said that doesn't mean he's better. I think Bi-Han just fits Noob Saibot better. Noob Saibot is an amazing character in his own right and taking Bi-Han away from him would ultimately ruin that. That's why I hope when MKX rolls around they find a way to ressurect Kuai Liang and since he doesn't have a body he gets a new one similar to his old human body.

I think it makes more sense as well for Noob Saibot to end up in chaosrealm through the soulnado. If they pull the old he was saved by the elder gods trick then I will be really pissed. If they are going to start over "fresh" then do just that. Don't rehash old storylines onto people for the sake of saying it's "change". I'm also thinking of Smoke's old cyber storyline when I say that as well, we know how that ended up.

Sub-Zero isn't some higher quo status....

It's not like Subzero = God status.

How can someone deserve a "Name" more than the original?

That would be like my brother using my name to honor me. But somehow he "Deserves" my name?

See how silly that sounds? Your giving the name "SubZero" some sort of higher status... When are you going to understand the name means "nothing"

It's the characters and their goals/feelings/agenda that mean something. Not some name.

People are just wondering.. who is gonna be the "Humanized Ice ninja" Not technically the name "Sub Zero"
 
Sub-Zero isn't some higher quo status....

It's not like Subzero = God status.

How can someone deserve a "Name" more than the original?

That would be like my brother using my name to honor me. But somehow he "Deserves" my name?

See how silly that sounds? Your giving the name "SubZero" some sort of higher status... When are you going to understand the name means "nothing"

It's the characters and their goals/feelings/agenda that mean something. Not some name.

People are just wondering.. who is gonna be the "Humanized Ice ninja" Not technically the name "Sub Zero"

I'm sure I can't find it because well I'm lazy. However, I'm pretty sure in the OLD timeline that the name was a family name passed down. Was it not?

I thought their father was Sub-Zero the fourth or fifth, then Bi-Han was sub-zero the sixth or something, then Kuai Liang was the sixth or seventh. i can't remember the numbers, but you get my point. It was a passed down name, another reason I appreciate the old timeline better.

Now it's just I took this name because I'm honoring my brother when that was completely not the reason in the old timeline. He took the name because it was in his family's heritage. That also makes people newer to the series think that Kuai Liang shouldn't take on the Sub-Zero name again but really he should. Anyone who takes this new game as the word will think Kuai Liang shouldn't take the name Sub-Zero however, he definitely should.

So to answer to your response Critical Limit, it may not be a sign of status NOW, but it was and to me it still is. It also, whether one will admit it or not, is a sign of status. Sub-Zero will, most likely, be in every game. If Kuai Liang is Sub-Zero then he will be in every game, thus why I want him as Sub-Zero.

@ Metal Overlord

Thanks I appreciate it. I just have always had that wonder when people say they prefer Bi-Han over Kuai Liang. I just never got it, and still don't I guesss.

I just don't think that Bi-Han should be "ressurrected" at all. I think they shot their load on that one. If they wanted Bi-Han to be Sub-Zero then they never should have killed him in this game. He could have stayed Sub-Zero and they could have just had Kuai Liang still get automated while Bi-Han and Smoke ran. Like I said if Noob Saibot is just a "symbiote" then have some random stooge become Noob Saibot and ignore the fact that it really is the evil within Bi-Han that creates Noob Saibot. Just saying Bi-Han becoming Sub-Zero again makes less sense than Kuai Liang or even someone new becoming Sub-Zero.

Also it would make little sense for Sub-Zero(Kuai Liang) to start going by a different name yet again when all of his peers, including Raiden, Sonya, and Johnny Cage all know him as Sub-Zero. The only people who know him as Tundra are the Cyborgs and Smoke and even they are calling him Sub-Zero now. So, if Kuai Liang is ressurrected it needs to be as Sub-Zero. I wouldn't be anti someone else becoming Sub-Zero but I am however anti Bi Han becoming Sub-Zero again. It would make little sense to me when they could have just done that in this game, and it would totally ruin the whole relationship between Sub-Zero, Scorpion, and Noob Saibot. Plus the whole story of one brother rising above, while the other sinks to the lowest depths would be gone. One the leader of a force for good the Lin Kuei, a group who earlier tried to kill him, and the other a member of a dark group from the pits of hell. I love that part of their story and don't want it to be ruined.

Sub-Zero was my favorite character ever from MK2 - Deadly Alliance, but in Deception the whole relationship with Noob just added to that. It was just good writing to me.
 
People are just wondering.. who is gonna be the "Humanized Ice ninja" Not technically the name "Sub Zero"


This pretty much sums it up for me.
Cyber Sub-Zero was also a different form of Sub-Zero, but the only thing I care about is which one is coming back as HUMAN Sub-Zero.

An MK game without human Sub-Zero and / or Scorpion would probably be a deal breaker for me.
MK3 was.
 
@Ames32

That's another thing I don't understand. People scream for change, change. Yet we think they can't end the Scorpion/Sub-Zero rivalry. Quite honestly it needs to end because it has went on for toooo long.

Has the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry ever ended? What about Packers/Bears? Giants/Dodgers? Cowboys/Redskins? Last time I checked, the answer in all those cases is a big fat NO, so why should Scorpion/Sub-Zero be any different? All of those rivalries are marquee rivalries, and Scorpion/Sub-Zero is no different. You don't pull the plug on a marquee rivalry under ANY circumstances and expect your franchise to succeed.
 
Has the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry ever ended? What about Packers/Bears? Giants/Dodgers? Cowboys/Redskins? Last time I checked, the answer in all those cases is a big fat NO, so why should Scorpion/Sub-Zero be any different? All of those rivalries are marquee rivalries, and Scorpion/Sub-Zero is no different. You don't pull the plug on a marquee rivalry under ANY circumstances and expect your franchise to succeed.

They could easily team the two up like hinted at many times, and it would be just as, if not more successful than their rivalry. Honestly I'm wanting the two to team up for a game and then forget about each other. The rivalry is legendary and no one will ever forget it, but i think there is a time to move on from rivalry's. U can only hate someone for so long before the hatred starts to die slightly.
 
They could easily team the two up like hinted at many times, and it would be just as, if not more successful than their rivalry. Honestly I'm wanting the two to team up for a game and then forget about each other. The rivalry is legendary and no one will ever forget it, but i think there is a time to move on from rivalry's. U can only hate someone for so long before the hatred starts to die slightly.

If that's the case, then how do you explain the fact that the rivalries I brought up have had the longevity that they did (and some of those have even lasted for more than a century)...and mind you, those are real-life rivalries!
 
If we`re going further with the story of mk9 - it`s most likely they BOTH will return.

Because Bi-Han is resurrected and became Noob Saibot. And Kuai Liang is Cyber Sub-Zero.
NRS won`t be like: LOLZ Cyber Sub-Zero was a joke.

Bi Han 4 the win.
IMO: Shoulda been Noob & Sub that teamed-up, instead of Scorp & Sub.

It will probably not happen because Noob became a bad guy and Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) is a good guy. Even when he becomes a Cyborg - in the mk9 story line the Lin Kuei is with Shao Kahn except for Cyber Sub-Zero.
Also Scorpion & Sub-Zero could happen but it would be a sh!t game. Scorpion & Sub-Zero is one of the biggest rivalries of all video games.













But I never did understand why there was to be needed 4 Sub-Zero`s (Bi-Han | Kuai Liang | Noob | Cyber Sub).
The only good forms of Sub-Zero were Noob and Cyber Sub.
 
If we`re going further with the story of mk9 - it`s most likely they BOTH will return.

Because Bi-Han is resurrected and became Noob Saibot. And Kuai Liang is Cyber Sub-Zero.
NRS won`t be like: LOLZ Cyber Sub-Zero was a joke.

It will probably not happen because Noob became a bad guy and Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) is a good guy. Even when he becomes a Cyborg - in the mk9 story line the Lin Kuei is with Shao Kahn except for Cyber Sub-Zero.
Also Scorpion & Sub-Zero could happen but it would be a sh!t game. Scorpion & Sub-Zero is one of the biggest rivalries of all video games.

.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with all that - 'cept I think Cyber-Sub's (+ all cyborgs) cheezy.
And I know Noob's a baddie, and Sub's spozed to be good. But them two teaming up would be better than Scorp/Sub. Like you said, Scorp/Sub are classic enemies. If NRS wanna team Scorp up with someone, make it Noob since theyre both bad guys = less cheezy.

Yellow & Blue don't mix.
 
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Yea that is true. But Scorpion is actually not bad. He is neutral.

Also Scorpion fits better with Quan Chi since Quan Chi resurrected Scorpion. But this is no thread for Scorpion.
But if I understand right...Bi-Han was Noob Saibot and Bi-Han was the mk1 Sub-Zero. So actually Noob Saibot came in mk1 while Sub-Zero (Tundra) came in mk2.
And so Bi-Han (Noob) is the original Sub-Zero and the original Sub-Zero was Noob Saibot. So Sub-Zero made no appearance in mk1!
Bi-Han had actually 2 forms - he was Sub-Zero and Noob - but the transformed in Noob Saibot in mk2 when he is killed by Scorpion and resurrected by Quan Chi.












And still I do hate Sub-Zero (except for Noob and Cyber)
 
Like Critical said, I think that Kuai should drop the moniker of Sub Zero. He should be his own character. He was Tundra before he took on the name. So why not go back? Hell, why not drop the Lin kuei monikers altogether and just be Kuai Liang? Although, I think it'd be cool at the same time for Bi Han to come back and assume his role as the Sub Zero who defeated the gods.

In my ideal Mk there'd be two Sub Zeros. Each with a separate fighting style. Maybe one fights faster than the other or has a different style of projectile. Maybe the two of them could squash the whole Scorpion rivalry and have an un-easy alliance. Tarkatan Trash brought up the real life rivalry of sports teams, but the situation doesn't apply here so much. Seeing as how neither Sub Zero is behind the killing of his family, they could tell him this and maybe he would stop being Quan Chi's personal butt slave. No Frost though. She was kind of a stupid character imo. The Mk world wouldn't be amiss without her inclusion.
 
Seeing as how neither Sub Zero is behind the killing of his family, they could tell him this and maybe he would stop being Quan Chi's personal butt slave.

This is EXACTLY why I want a Sub Zero and Scorpion (Shaolin Monks styled) action \ adventure game.

No Frost though. She was kind of a stupid character imo. The Mk world wouldn't be amiss without her inclusion.

I wouldn't miss her 1 bit.
Good riddance Sub Zero clone. ;-)
 
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