Bi han or kuai liang more likely to return in mk10?

Which one?

  • Bi Han

    Votes: 25 65.8%
  • Kuai Liang

    Votes: 13 34.2%

  • Total voters
    38
Critical took the words out of my mouth.

And btw, it's not about what you like, it's about the facts and making a good story..

Really?

I was not being harsh to Critical Limit at all even though he or she seems to think I was meaning it that way. I was just saying prove that it would have hurt Scorpion's story. Which it probably wouldn't have, hell anything besides vengeance would be good for Scorpion at this point. Also, I know it's not about what I like, and lol at this being a good story by the way. If it was about what I like this shit cyber sub-zero story wouldn't have happened in the first place, so there ya go.

My whole argument was this though. If they were going to make Bi-Han sub-zero again, which they may do I'm not saying they won't, then doesn't it seem strange that they still turned him into Noob Saibot in this game?

The fact is they easily could have just left him alive and it wouldn't have effected the story much.

Cyber subz still would have happened
Noob could have just been someone else...according to everyone in here
Smoke would have still been saved
and most importantly it would have left them one human sub-zero

However, they didn't do that. I'm just laying out facts. They still turned him into Noob Saibot. Which tells me they intend for Kuai Liang to be seen as Sub-Zero. My thing is, and again it's just my opinion, why do people have so much love for Bi-Han as Sub-zero just because he was the original. Because that's what it seems like. People like him because he was there first, yet they are so willing to throw parts of Kuai Liang's story onto everyone else. Which shows that they must somewhat like Kuai Liang's story, but for some reason don't like him. It just blows my mind. They are both Sub-Zero, but they took Kuai Liang's story and ran with it, and it is quite possibly the best individual story of the old timeline.

My next point is that it would just simply make more sense for the person who is still in all aspects Sub-Zero just in cyber form to return as Sub-Zero in the next game. It also wouldn't be as hard as people are making it out to be to turn him human. He's dead already, so being brought back in human form shouldn't be a stretch.

Also, my third point is this. If they were simply going to just turn Bi-Han back into Sub-Zero, then why turn him into Noob Saibot in the first place, even in the old timeline. It would just be backtracking on what they have already done. It's obvious that revealing Bi-Han as Noob Saibot was something that they liked from the old timeline, thus why they kept it. I mean they could have just kept Noob Saibot as some nobody lackey like reptile or baraka, but he has a personality now and connections to other characters. That instantly make his story ten times more interesting. Why undo all of that for the simple fact of returning a human sub-zero?

Also we don't even know if they like human sub-zero as a character anymore. I mean let's be honest. Sub-Zero got the shit beat out of him all the way up to release in every trailer, pic, statue, etc... Hell look at the start screen. Then they gave him a good moveset with good damage scaling, and ripped it away from him. He is now considered one of the worst playable characters in the game. Then they turned one sub-zero into noob saibot and made the other a freaking cyborg. It's safe to say Sub-Zero got probably the worst treatment of any character in this game. So human sub-zero could be history for all we know. As much as it pains me to say that.


You have to remeber this is a reboot so you can leave that out of the picture.

People act like just because this is a reboot that anything and everything can change. You know what though, on that same aspect anything can not change too. They can pick and choose what will and won't happen, and I will damn well bet that if they want to make a "Fire and Ice" game then they will remember the whole "Scorpion protecting Sub-Zero" thing.
 
you know what i want... i want none of them to return.. i like cuber subzero and i like noob saibot.. i think if there should be a human ninja type person.. they should introduce frost

A Sub-Zero with tits using Human Sub-Zero's freezing powers is just as dumb as Jarek in MK4.
Jarek was Kano in moves and fatality, minus the name and look.
I hope Frost NEVER returns to an MK game.

If they're going to waste all that time to make a Sub-Zero clone, then why not just make Sub-Zero?
Plus, NRS would be dumb NOT to include Sub-Zero in an MK game.
They already made that mistake once, with Scorpion, in UMK3.


People act like just because this is a reboot that anything and everything can change. You know what though, on that same aspect anything can not change too. They can pick and choose what will and won't happen, and I will damn well bet that if they want to make a "Fire and Ice" game then they will remember the whole "Scorpion protecting Sub-Zero" thing.

I see what Aldo means by it having the possibility of changing, being a reboot, but at the same time I also agree with you Subz.
Just because it's a reboot doesn't mean that it HAS to change.
I don't like the idea of Liu Kang being dead AGAIN either, but that's also a possibility, considering that he died at the end of MK9.


As far as the possibility of a "Fire and Ice" game;

IF it's even made, Subz is right, they're going to HAVE to remember the whole "Scorpion protecting Kuai Liang" thing, if they plan on having Sub-Zero team up with Scorpion to take out Quan Chi.
 
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Everyone makes good points, but may i just point something out, if i remember correctly, scorpion vowed only not to harm sub-zero, not to protect him, why the hell would sub-zero need scorpion to protect him, sub-zero can take care of himself, now don't get me wrong, i love them both, they are both real great characters, but just the idea of scorpion protecting sub-zero makes sub-zero sound soft IMO :).
 
Everyone makes good points, but may i just point something out, if i remember correctly, scorpion vowed only not to harm sub-zero, not to protect him, why the hell would sub-zero need scorpion to protect him, sub-zero can take care of himself, now don't get me wrong, i love them both, they are both real great characters, but just the idea of scorpion protecting sub-zero makes sub-zero sound soft IMO :).

you'd be wrong.

He would soon learn that this Sub-Zero was not his murderer, but Sub-Zero's younger brother. To atone for slaying his kin, Scorpion vowed to protect Sub-Zero instead. But Sub-Zero would never know this, or the reason behind it.

link for more info.
Scorpion's original timeline

I want them to expand on this in MK10: Tundra a Childhood friend of Smoke.
 
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Let me just say, i would like both bi han and kuai liang in future mk games, bi han as original subs, i have never been a fan of cyber subs, but if i have to chose between the two, then bi han as human original subs for sure, and kuai as cyber subs, i do think kuai was better at being sub zero and he was sub zero the longest, but, it's just like watching the remake of a movie, i don't like movie remakes, because the way i see it, you can't ever beat the original, which is what i think about the subs bros, the original is always best, so, have bi han as human subs, kuai as cyber subs and saibot as his own person that could get a story of his own, everyone will then be happy :) xx
 
Let me just say, i would like both bi han and kuai liang in future mk games, bi han as original subs, i have never been a fan of cyber subs, but if i have to chose between the two, then bi han as human original subs for sure, and kuai as cyber subs, i do think kuai was better at being sub zero and he was sub zero the longest, but, it's just like watching the remake of a movie, i don't like movie remakes, because the way i see it, you can't ever beat the original, which is what i think about the subs bros, the original is always best, so, have bi han as human subs, kuai as cyber subs and saibot as his own person that could get a story of his own, everyone will then be happy :) xx

Except me and anyone who is a fan of Kuai Liang.

Why is the original better? It seems that everyone has this opinion that Bi-Han is better simply because he's the original. Makes no sense.

I would much rather have Kuai Liang back as Sub-Zero and Bi-Han back as Noob Saibot. Either that or don't bring Noob back at all if they go the route of making Bi-Han Sub-Zero again somehow.

Also kill off cyber subz completely as well. The whole Kuai Liang and Bi-Han thing has become too convoluted. Noob saibot, Cyber Subz, and we all want both of them as Sub-Zero. Just make one sub-zero and one noob saibot. cyber subz wasn't needed. Sorry if that opinion offends anyone.
 
Except me and anyone who is a fan of Kuai Liang.

Why is the original better? It seems that everyone has this opinion that Bi-Han is better simply because he's the original. Makes no sense.

I would much rather have Kuai Liang back as Sub-Zero and Bi-Han back as Noob Saibot. Either that or don't bring Noob back at all if they go the route of making Bi-Han Sub-Zero again somehow.

Also kill off cyber subz completely as well. The whole Kuai Liang and Bi-Han thing has become too convoluted. Noob saibot, Cyber Subz, and we all want both of them as Sub-Zero. Just make one sub-zero and one noob saibot. cyber subz wasn't needed. Sorry if that opinion offends anyone.

People are entitled to their opinions. Bihan apparently attracts people in some shape or form that Kuai Lang is not. I mean look at the results up above lol.
 
People are entitled to their opinions. Bihan apparently attracts people in some shape or form that Kuai Lang is not. I mean look at the results up above lol.


Even though he was only in 1 MK game as Sub-Zero (2 if you count MK9), Bi-Han has a sort of ruthless appeal to me that Kuai doesn't have.
In all honesty though, as long as we got a HUMAN Sub-Zero for MK10, I wouldn't care which one of them it was.
 
Even though he was only in 1 MK game as Sub-Zero (2 if you count MK9), Bi-Han has a sort of ruthless appeal to me that Kuai doesn't have.
In all honesty though, as long as we got a HUMAN Sub-Zero for MK10, I wouldn't care which one of them it was.

With a name like Sub Zero you'd expect him to be cold and unforgiving in other words Bi-Han would been the bad guy of the two brothers clearly, look at who they ended up being in the end.
 
Even though he was only in 1 MK game as Sub-Zero (2 if you count MK9), Bi-Han has a sort of ruthless appeal to me that Kuai doesn't have.
In all honesty though, as long as we got a HUMAN Sub-Zero for MK10, I wouldn't care which one of them it was.

I understand Bi Han is ruthless. However Scorpion is ruthless. Reptile is ruthless. Hell half the damn characters are ruthless. Kuai Liang is ruthless as well. He just uses his ruthlessness for good.

I think it all goes back to people want to cheer for the bad guy. I don't understand why either.

Like i said it just confuses me, especially when people say they want him to become Grandmaster and such. It's obvious they liked Kuai's story they just want it on Bi Han and I don't understand that.

Critical Limit is right though. People are entitled to opinions and my opinion just differs from everyone else's apparently. I will always see Kuai Liang as Sub-Zero. Even if they somehow turn Bi-Han back into Sub-Zero I'm just going to say screw the story and I'll just remember Kuai Liang being Sub-Zero. He deserves the name so much more in my opinion.

Think of it from a running business perspective as well. Say someone made a business and then sold it. Then the person who bought it made the business way more profitable than the original ever did. The original deserves credit, however he most definitely wasn't the better businessman.

That's how I take Bi-Han and Kuai Liang. Bi-Han may have been the original but Kuai Liang took the name and made a character out of it. Bi-Han's just a blue ninja to me.

I don't think those results really mean anything up there either. I have seen the same poll on different MK sites and Kuai Liang would win.

I remember a poll came out a while before MK9 was released and people were up in arms over who sub-zero would be. So some guy made a poll and linked it to different MK sites and Twitter and such. It had like 300-400 votes and it was literally down the middle. The only thing that poll means is that TRMK prefers Bi-Han.
 
I like Bi-Han more than Kuai Liang because of MK Mythologies


For some reason I bet that's the reason a lot of people do. I played that game and it was okay, don't get me wrong but it really just served as an introduction to MK4 for me. It most certainly wasn't anything gameplay wise. I even remember someone suggesting that Boon should make another Mythologies game and Boon replied "No, we shouldn't" on twitter. So I'm pretty sure it didn't even sell that well.

I still stand by the fact that they aren't going to make someone look bad in their own game either. Also it kind of serves as a prestory for Noob Saibot. If we didn't see how much of an a**hole Bi-Han is and how evil he could be then we wouldn't know why he ended up being Noob Saibot. So if anything it gave the Noob Saibot story more weight. I view Noob Saibot as the third most important character to MK too though second only to Scorpion and Sub-Zero. That's why it would be a travesty to me to see Noob Saibot get eliminated.
 
Scorpion is an unwilling participant forced to be that way, the same could be said for Reptile he wants his race (or clan) back. Mk lacks the willingly evil ninja excluding Ermac and Noob for obvious reasons. Well I guess you could count Rain as being evil.

Plus in Japanese or chinese (can't remember which) lore and comics the bad guys wear Blue and the good guys wear Red.
 
Scorpion is an unwilling participant forced to be that way, the same could be said for Reptile he wants his race (or clan) back. Mk lacks the willingly evil ninja excluding Ermac and Noob for obvious reasons. Well I guess you could count Rain as being evil.

Plus in Japanese or chinese (can't remember which) lore and comics the bad guys wear Blue and the good guys wear Red.

I disagree with that. Most of the ninjas besides Scorpion, Sub-Zero, and Ermac are evil. Reptile wants his race back but what would he do once he got his race back? He's a friggin raptor he's going to eat the hell out of anyone in sight. He's most certainly evil. Rain has the evil card covered most definitely he's a traitor to his own realm. Noob Saibot is the epitome of evil, nuff said on him. Even when he gets free from Quan he wants to rule the netherrealm. Hell even Scorpion is an anti-hero. What's wrong with their being a couple of good ninjas?

It doesn't hurt for Sub-Zero to be a good guy. Also what would the good guys have without Sub-Zero? Liu kang and Sub-Zero are arguably their most powerful fighters.

I don't really care about the japanese lore thing. Sorry. I don't know why that would matter anyway since Mk is a westernized game. Plus I think blue is a soothing color whereas red makes people angry. So it would make more sense for blue to represent good and red to represent bad to me. Red is also the color of blood, color of fire, color associated with hell and satan. I just don't find red to be a "good" color at all.
 
As of the current story Ermac is still evil and will likely remain that way considering what happened to Shang Tsung. Noob Saibot is Bi-Hans evil incarnate, No one really knows what reptile could be. Then again I don't think they've ever given him the chance to grow on his own.

An I said "willingly evil" so Noob, Ermac, Reptile and Scorpion don't count they don't have any choice in the matter. They are being controlled magically or by other means.
 
As of the current story emac is still evil and will likely remain that way considering what happened to Shang Tsung. Noob is Bi-Hans evil incarnate, No one knows what reptile could be. Then again I don't think they've ever given him the chance to grow on his own.

An I said "willingly evil" so Noob, Ermac, Reptile and Scorpion don't count they don't have any choice in the matter. They are being controlled magically.

Well Shao Kahn is dead and he was the only thing keeping Ermac evil so I imagine that he will probably end up good. Reptile is evil on his own. There's just no way to spin that. He always follows the evil guys notice that? Notice he hasn't once ever followed the good guys? Noob is controlled by Quan Chi now, but has proved even when he's free of his control he is still evil. He just wants to rule the brotherhood of shadow and the netherrealm. His ending even hints a rebellion against the netherrealm so he can take over. There's a difference between Quan Chi controlling him and creating him.

Take it this way. Quan Chi "controlled" both Scorpion and Noob Saibot in Mk9. However Scorpion always knew when he was doing wrong, thus leading the audience to believe he has a good side. He knew that killing Bi-Han was wrong, but Quan convinced him to do it anyway. In the conversation with Raiden at the end he could also tell he was in the wrong.

Noob Saibot flat out told Sub-Zero that Quan Chi perfected him. He loves being Noob Saibot. There's really no Quan Chi controlling him going on there.

Quan Chi created both of them, but he doesn't control either of them. They are free to go about their own destinies if they wish. Ultimately Bi-Han is evil thus why he ended up as Noob Saibot. The evil in his soul helped make him what he is.

So that leaves Noob Saibot, Reptile, and Rain as the evil ninjas. Sub-Zero and Ermac as the good ones, and Scorpion as the anti-hero. He's just in between.

So the evil ones actually outweight the good ones. Thus it doesn't hurt Sub-Zero to be a good guy.
 
No. Bi-Han was more or less evil. He only showed remorse when Quan chi showed that clip to Scorpion. Scorpion is the "anti-hero" (neutral) they both can't be the good guy someone has to be in the wrong in this "Current Arch". So it would hinder their rivalry/ story to have them both be the good guys.

Or Scorpion figures out Noob is Bi-Han and they switch the rivalry to Noob V. Scorpion. That's if Noob*survived the soulnado.
 
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No. Bi-Han was more or less evil. He only showed remorse when Quan chi showed that clip to Scorpion. Scorpion is the "anti-hero" (neutral) they both can't be the good guy someone has to be in the wrong in this current arch. So it would hinder their rivalry/ story to have them both be the good guys.

I think you are taking it as I mean that Sub-Zero is a good guy as Bi-Han. I am not. I'm referring to Kuai Liang being the good guy.

I'm saying there is nothing wrong with Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) being a good guy. You're right there does have to be a bad guy in that arch between Scorpion and Bi-Han and it is Bi-Han(Noob Saibot).

Also I was saying that Scorpion showed remorse. I don't think bi han showed any remorse at all. He was more or less trying not to get killed in that scene. It was Scorpion who showed all the remorse over murdering him.
 
I think you are taking it as I ment that Sub-Zero is a good guy as Bi-Han. I am not. I'm referring to Kuai Liang being the good guy.

I'm saying there is nothing wrong with Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) being a good guy. You're right there does have to be a bad guy in that arch between Scorpion and Bi-Han and it is Bi-Han(Noob Saibot).

Also I was saying that Scorpion showed remorse. I don't think bi han showed any remorse at all. He was more or less trying not to get killed in that scene. It was Scorpion who showed all the remorse over murdering him.

Yeah. Bi-Han was the bad one and Kuai Liang is the good one.
If they switched the rivalry to Noob V. Scorpion then I guess it wouldn't be an issue. I have a real hard time believing they'd throw all that history away though.

So really it's all up in the air at this point.
 
??? Noob's story is pretty garbage to be honest. He's practically just a henchmen like Ermac is in MK9. Their role in the story as of MK-> UMK3 story line. Is that of a *****. Similar to how they displayed barakka in the story mode. He just does shit he's told to do. Same goes for Ermac and Noob Saibot. They don't have any of their own ambitions.

They need to break free from "Mind control, or loyalty to master" before they can gain character development. Because we all know without this "control" They would be totally different people. And most likely not "Pure Evil"
 
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