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Thread: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkZeppelin View Post
    u guys lucky i was wasted, no seriously haha
    Lol, good games everyone!

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    I'm confused...
    If team A plays team B, A has 4 ppl and B has only 2 show up then the amount of points that can be earned by team A is less than when team C plays team B with their full roster of 4 later...

    How is that fair?

    How about after each team plays you do the average points earned per match. Example...

    Virginia and Texas, we had 16 points, 3 of ours vs. 2 of theirs. That's 6 matches. Divide 16 by 6 that's 2.7 per match for Virginia, and .3 for texas.

    No matter how many play the points are an average so nobody is penalized for no shows.
    Last edited by Treadmill; 01-05-2012 at 05:36 PM.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Official results from Team USA vs. Team EU

    Zoidberg747 vs. FR stack: 2-0 Zoidberg
    The Johnny Rook vs. Flagg: 2-1 Johnny Rook
    Zoidberg747 vs. Cactus Flagg: 2-1 Flagg
    Zoidberg747 vs. Pink I Zeppelin: 2-0 Zoidberg
    n9195v vs. Shura30: 2-0 Shura
    n9195v vs. FR stack: 2-0 n9195v
    n9195v vs. Flagg: 2-0 n9195
    The Johnny Rook vs. I Ufle I: 2-0 Ufle
    The Johnny Rook vs. Shura: 2-0 Shura
    Zoidberg747 vs. Shura30: 2-1 Shura
    Zoidberg747 vs. I Ufle I: 2-0 Ufle
    The Johnny Rook vs. Pink I Zeppelin: 2-0 Johnny Rook
    The Johnny Rook vs. FR Stack: 2-0 FR Stack
    n9195v vs. Ufle: 2-0 Ufle
    n9195v vs. Pink I Zeppelin: 2-0 n9195v

    Team EU had 23 points and Team USA had 22 points. Good games everyone, this going to be a fun January.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoidberg747 View Post
    Official results from Team USA vs. Team EU

    Zoidberg747 vs. FR stack: 2-0 Zoidberg
    The Johnny Rook vs. Flagg: 2-1 Johnny Rook
    Zoidberg747 vs. Cactus Flagg: 2-1 Flaggpo
    Zoidberg747 vs. Pink I Zeppelin: 2-0 Zoidberg
    n9195v vs. Shura30: 2-0 Shura
    n9195v vs. FR stack: 2-0 n9195v
    n9195v vs. Flagg: 2-0 n9195
    The Johnny Rook vs. I Ufle I: 2-0 Ufle
    The Johnny Rook vs. Shura: 2-0 Shura
    Zoidberg747 vs. Shura30: 2-1 Shura
    Zoidberg747 vs. I Ufle I: 2-0 Ufle
    The Johnny Rook vs. Pink I Zeppelin: 2-0 Johnny Rook
    The Johnny Rook vs. FR Stack: 2-0 FR Stack
    n9195v vs. Ufle: 2-0 Ufle
    n9195v vs. Pink I Zeppelin: 2-0 n9195v

    Team EU had 23 points and Team USA had 22 points. Good games everyone, this going to be a fun January.
    This proves my point, if team Virginia went undefeated we could only get 18 points.

    I understand penalizing your own team for missing members but not for the other team missing members.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadmill View Post
    This proves my point, if team Virginia went undefeated we could only get 18 points.

    I understand penalizing your own team for missing members but not for the other team missing members.
    Maybe when all is said and done all that really matters is total wins.

    Flagg I got disconnected on XBL so easier on here...You said when we play a big team, but what if a big team in the end purposely only has a few players play to prevent other team from scoring a lot so they can't take the lead or something.
    Last edited by saix88; 01-05-2012 at 05:51 PM.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    good games to all the guys tonight!

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    Quote Originally Posted by saix88 View Post
    Maybe when all is said and done all that really matters is total wins.

    Flagg I got disconnected on XBL so easier on here...You said when we play a big team, but what if a big team in the end purposely only has a few players play to prevent other team from scoring a lot so they can't take the lead or something.
    even total wins wouldn't matter, unless it was averaged.

    The possible points in the euro match were over double in ours...even if travokane had shown up.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadmill View Post
    even total wins wouldn't matter, unless it was averaged.

    The possible points in the euro match were over double in ours...even if travokane had shown up.
    I meant win as a team not as individuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saix88 View Post
    I meant win as a team not as individuals.
    Then what are the points for?

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    Guys.

    If we had played Team Texas the most piints we could get off them would be 24 and the most they could get off us would be 24.

    The point system is fair. You just played a smaller team. When we play Texas we won't get the chance to win as many points off them as a team of 4 and vice versa.

    Edit: who is seriously going to tell their team mates "don't play cause we want to win"?

    Team USA has as many players as us as well. You only have 1 less player than us.
    Last edited by Flagg; 01-05-2012 at 07:15 PM.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
    Guys.

    If we had played Team Texas the most piints we could get off them would be 24 and the most they could get off us would be 24.

    The point system is fair. You just played a smaller team. When we play Texas we won't get the chance to win as many points off them as a team of 4 and vice versa.

    Edit: who is seriously going to tell their team mates "don't play cause we want to win"?

    Team USA has as many players as us as well. You only have 1 less player than us.
    Personal grudge? Just saying.

    Team EU had all their players, what if we play EU and they are missing 2, and then the rest of the time EU is there so we are at a big point disadvantage as the other teams.

    Am I looking at this wrong? Either way just have to see how it plays out.
    Last edited by saix88; 01-05-2012 at 07:49 PM.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Tram Texas has 4 players. We played 2. Next team they play, they might have all 4 therefore the next team has the ability to make more points off them. I don't know how to make it clearer. I'm not upset I just don't understand.

    If we play them this week and they only use 2 ppl and the next week they use 4 then that team playing them has the ability to earn more points than us off the same team.

    The only way the scoring can possibly come out fair is 1. Teams use the same number of ppl every single match 2. We do an average of points per individual matchup

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Do points even matter in the long run or is it strictly for the immediate match for that night?

    Say Team Virginia has the best record of 9-1 and 2nd best is 8-2, Team Virginia wins over all correct? Or is it if the team with 8-2 has more points over Team Virginia they get first place? Because to my understanding the point system is to even out a 2v5 match up and would make no sense in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saix88 View Post
    Do points even matter in the long run or is it strictly for the immediate match for that night?

    Say Team Virginia has the best record of 9-1 and 2nd best is 8-2, Team Virginia wins over all correct? Or is it if the team with 8-2 has more points over Team Virginia they get first place? Because to my understanding the point system is to even out a 2v5 match up and would make no sense in the long run.
    if you are correct I have wasted a large part of my evening being confused...Haha

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    If the players on your team consistantly wins 2-0 in your match ups, in the long run you wiull come out with more points then anyone else.

    Yes I suppose someone could "cheat" if they wanted to, but that potentially has the chance of back firing on them. I won't. I mean me and Pink nearly didn't play tonight. So obviously the onus is ensuring your team mates are not slacking off and there most times, hence why I moved things around to get Mike in.

    In the EU vs USA match, there were 9 players involved. In your match there was just 5. When it comes for you or Texas to play the bigger teams you will both get your chance to win more points.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    I will also tally the points up when I get in to make sure that scoreline that Zoid tallied up is correct when I get in from work.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Hey Flagg, I have been following your tournaments for while and you have been organising this well. I thought of pointing out something I noticed as regards to the point system. I think that if any team has a larger number of members, that team has a higher chance of winning as compared to as team with lower members. This is how.

    Team EU has 5 members and thus it has chance of getting a maximum of 120 points (24*5)

    Team Texas has 3 members and thus it has a chance of getting a maximum of 72 points (24*3).

    Thus even with both teams having a perfect record Team EU wins because of the higher number of members. Also I took into consideration that such a scenario will not occur (since if one member wins 2 points the other should either get 1 or 0). But still I feel that a team with higher players has a higher chance of winning compared to teams with lower players.

    You can also think of it in this way. Assume that this was not a team tourny and there were no team present and all the 25 players played individually. Once we got the scores we now divide them into teams probably based on area to see which area does better. While doing so assigning unequal number of members between the areas will not show who the true winner is. For example Team A got 65 points from 5 members and team B got 45 points from 3 players. Here prima facie, Team A looks like the winner due to the highest number of points. But I think in actuality Team B is the winner because the average point per member in Team B is 15 which is higher than the average point per member in Team A which is 13.

    Thus I think as Treadmill suggested, averaging the points at the end is the way to go about it.

    You may have thought of it already and perhaps I may be wrong as well in this logic, but I just thought of letting you know if at all you missed it.

    Cheers mate, Good Luck with the tourny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Jinko View Post
    Hey Flagg, I have been following your tournaments for while and you have been organising this well. I thought of pointing out something I noticed as regards to the point system. I think that if any team has a larger number of members, that team has a higher chance of winning as compared to as team with lower members. This is how.

    Team EU has 5 members and thus it has chance of getting a maximum of 120 points (24*5)

    Team Texas has 3 members and thus it has a chance of getting a maximum of 72 points (24*3).

    Thus even with both teams having a perfect record Team EU wins because of the higher number of members. Also I took into consideration that such a scenario will not occur (since if one member wins 2 points the other should either get 1 or 0). But still I feel that a team with higher players has a higher chance of winning compared to teams with lower players.

    You can also think of it in this way. Assume that this was not a team tourny and there were no team present and all the 25 players played individually. Once we got the scores we now divide them into teams probably based on area to see which area does better. While doing so assigning unequal number of members between the areas will not show who the true winner is. For example Team A got 65 points from 5 members and team B got 45 points from 3 players. Here prima facie, Team A looks like the winner due to the highest number of points. But I think in actuality Team B is the winner because the average point per member in Team B is 15 which is higher than the average point per member in Team A which is 13.

    Thus I think as Treadmill suggested, averaging the points at the end is the way to go about it.

    You may have thought of it already and perhaps I may be wrong as well in this logic, but I just thought of letting you know if at all you missed it.

    Cheers mate, Good Luck with the tourny.
    FJ, you must be pyschic because I've been thinking about this all morning. While the point system works "in theor" it is flawed by the numbers game because more players guarantee more chance of point scoring.

    What I might do is tweak the point system. At the end of a battle the total points are added up and then divided by the number of team players present to give an "average score" (rounding decimal 5 up), which is then a final score.
    Last edited by Flagg; 01-06-2012 at 04:42 AM.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Okay some quick math shows that going on averages:
    EU 23/5 = 4.6 = 5
    USA 22/3 =7.3 = 7
    Virginia 16/3 = 5.3 = 5
    Texas 2/2 = 1

    Does that seem fairer now?
    Last edited by Flagg; 01-06-2012 at 07:23 AM.

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    Re: The Official Team Battle Thread Jan 2012- Feb 2012

    Flagg...
    I really hate to keep saying this but your system is dependent on everyone showing up to every match. Again I understand my team being penalized if one of ours doesn't show. But if the other team has someone no show for our match but shoes for everyone else then we literally can not score as many points, do you see what I am saying? For instance against Texas if we won all our matches 2-0 er would get 18 points. But next time they play another team if they have all 4 members that's a possible 48 points(feel free to check my math) they could give up. That isn't my teams fault yet we are penalized, you see?

    Anyone elders see this?

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