Your wishlist for MK10

Metal Overlord said:

He said that for Chameleon, not Khameleon

I hope she comes back too, though. She actually has some use in the story; she can help transform Reptile into a force for good (which I've wanted to see for SO LONG), and help revive his race of Saurians

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Exactly what I want!

Guys if I recall correctly didn't NRS state before it released that this story is a (what if?) Kind of story.

So if I remember correctly we should continue from Armageddon with Taven winning.

I don't remember them saying anything like that

If so, then MK9 wouldn't be canon, which it is

The story would also be more self-contained, which it isn't

That would be dumb if they did that :|

"Yea.. Lets restart the whole series killing off most of our Iconic characters just for the same results! They'll love that "

Araknyd I'm done arguing if your only argument is "He's gonna get hacked"

Might I refer you to Quan Chi who can MIND CONTROL people.

Subzero's story developed fine as a human when there were people who could mind control on the field.

Why can't he do everything you want him to do as human as a cyborg, and NOT get hacked?
just like he DIDN'T get mind controlled?


Just admit it, you don't like the look of your human subzero becoming a cyborg.

That's the real reason.

And I never said human subzero never had a good story.

I don't care if he's human or NOT human.

i'm just arguing the point, that Cyborg or NOT. He can grow as a character. And that he does not NEED to be a human, to grow.

The only reason I'm arguing with you and Subz is because you make it seem like "It's human or he's doomed to have a shitty plot"

which I completely think is a unfair statement, and untrue.

His story was probably more interesting as a cyborg than when he was human in MK9. Arguable so lets not do that.

I'm just saying he does not NEED to be human in flesh, to have a great story.

Otherwise Mokoto from Ghost in the Shell would be a boring character

otherwise Raiden from Metal Gear would be a boring character.

get my drift?

Araknyd_Commander said:

Understood, but the question was not whether or not it was a lazy move, but rather if it was possible at all in the next game.

I know that it's been beaten like a dead horse, but Kuai-Liang isn't the only Sub-Zero, and it's possible that Bi-Han could come back human as a divided soul, due to being kicked into the Soulnado by Nightwolf, similar to his Armageddon ending.

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Here's how I see it. Sub Zero is only going to work (in the new timeline) as a cyborg. They could maybe tone down the cyborg look of him a bit... But transferring his spirit into a human body or whatever would seem incredibly forced and cheap. He's a cyborg now... This is what Boon decided on and I hope he sticks with it. Not because I like Cyber Sub Zero or anything... Cause I'm pretty much indifferent when it comes to him... But because that is what happened and trying to undo that would be stupid.

There's plenty of room for character development here. Sub Zero isn't dead. He's just a little... robotic.

This isn't really related to MK10, but there's still a lot of pre-MK1 events I want to see

Like the first MK tournament in Earthrealm where the Great Kung Lao fought Goro, the initial war between Shinnok and Raiden, the 10th Edenian MK tournament and conquer of that realm, and Shinnok's overthrow of Lucifer in the Netherrealm

Maybe all these could be visualized through flashbacks, the style of MK9's arcade endings, etc.

Metal Overlord said:

This isn't really related to MK10, but there's still a lot of pre-MK1 events I want to see

Like the first MK tournament in Earthrealm where the Great Kung Lao fought Goro, the initial war between Shinnok and Raiden, the 10th Edenian MK tournament and conquer of that realm, and Shinnok's overthrow of Lucifer in the Netherrealm

Maybe all these could be visualized through flashbacks, the style of MK9's arcade endings, etc.

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Or get their own games.

Of course

I wish that they could have made a spinoff where the story has direct ties to MK10's story, like with Mythologies and MK4

Here's a Tanya pic I made. ;-)

Critical-Limit said:

Araknyd I'm done arguing if your only argument is "He's gonna get hacked"

Might I refer you to Quan Chi who can MIND CONTROL people.

Subzero's story developed fine as a human when there were people who could mind control on the field.

Why can't he do everything you want him to do as human as a cyborg, and NOT get hacked?
just like he DIDN'T get mind controlled?


Just admit it, you don't like the look of your human subzero becoming a cyborg.

That's the real reason.

And I never said human subzero never had a good story.

I don't care if he's human or NOT human.

i'm just arguing the point, that Cyborg or NOT. He can grow as a character. And that he does not NEED to be a human, to grow.

The only reason I'm arguing with you and Subz is because you make it seem like "It's human or he's doomed to have a shitty plot"

which I completely think is a unfair statement, and untrue.

His story was probably more interesting as a cyborg than when he was human in MK9. Arguable so lets not do that.

I'm just saying he does not NEED to be human in flesh, to have a great story.

Otherwise Mokoto from Ghost in the Shell would be a boring character

otherwise Raiden from Metal Gear would be a boring character.

get my drift?

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I don't know many characters in the franchise who can mind control besides maybe Ermac? Otherwise it would be a complete joke because all of the people who could mind control would just make the others kill eachother. So, yes it is a valid argument. Not the only one though.

I've brought up and said that while it may be shallow it's not really a wonder why a lot of Sub-Zero fans are pissed. All sorts of other fans have been pissed about their characters aesthetics. Yet, when we Sub-Zero fans get pissed we get bashed by everybody, and I think that's just some dumb crap. We deserve a say in how we want our character to appear. Quite honestly people were pissed when Shredder Sub-Zero came about and I remember it. I remember my brother laughing his a** off because my favorite character had become something out of Ninja turtles. I defended that attire, and still defend it to this day. I feel it is his best attire honestly, so no Critical Limit not everyone loved that attire like you seemed to imply. Some people thought it was downright ridiculous.

A lot of people were dumbfounded at him being old in deadly alliance and I stood by that too. There are many different attires that they could go with for Sub-Zero and people will b**ch. I have always been fine with all of his forms. I'm not with this one though because I do feel it will prevent character growth whether you guys admit it or not. You ever heard the expression having the personality of a robot? If you haven't then it means basically having no personality. I'm not just coming up with this stuff. It does exist. Being, basically, a robot does not allow him to EXPRESS emotion.

Honestly, I feel it goes againt his character too which is my next point.

There is such a thing as bad character direction, or bad character development. If you guys don't think that Cyber Sub-Zero is just plain bad character direction then tell me what exactly would be a bad character direction for Sub-Zero? Because I have always thougth that turning him cyber would be the worst thing they could do to him, and low and behold it happened. So give me an example of a bad character direction for him.

@ Metal Overlord.

The statement I made in my last post was in reference to not getting my post Armageddon story, not Kuai Liang having kids etc... If it seemed that way sorry, that's not what I meant.

Edit:
@ RichetMatt

I don't see why turning him human again would feel forced or cheap. Johnny Cage came back to life no telling how many times in the old timeline and people called foul then. Guess what people got over it though. There are plenty of other people, PLENTY of other people who were brought back from the dead, etc... Why in the hell people think that turning Subz cyber needs to be permanent of the permanent baffles me.

Look at it this way. Every one of those guys, not just Sub-Zero, are going to need a new body. All of them, because their bodies are rotting corpses now. If Kitana comes back to life, she gets a new body. If Jax comes back to life he gets a new body. Same with Sub-Zero. If he gets brought back to life he gets a new body. It would only seem NATURAL that it be in a human form. Hell, I'm going to call foul if Jax and Kabal don't get to be fully human again as well instead of having those arms and face mask. It would only seem right for them to be returned to a natural human state.

Also has anyone questioned whether or not Quan Chi had the warriors souls or if it was their bodies reanimated? I mean we never saw their dead bodies again, maybe he doesn't actually have their souls. Also, why in the hell would their souls look like zombies?

Subz 711 said:

Edit:
@ RichetMatt

I don't see why turning him human again would feel forced or cheap. Johnny Cage came back to life no telling how many times in the old timeline and people called foul then. Guess what people got over it though. There are plenty of other people, PLENTY of other people who were brought back from the dead, etc... Why in the hell people think that turning Subz cyber needs to be permanent of the permanent baffles me.

Look at it this way. Every one of those guys, not just Sub-Zero, are going to need a new body. All of them, because their bodies are rotting corpses now. If Kitana comes back to life, she gets a new body. If Jax comes back to life he gets a new body. Same with Sub-Zero. If he gets brought back to life he gets a new body. It would only seem NATURAL that it be in a human form. Hell, I'm going to call foul if Jax and Kabal don't get to be fully human again as well instead of having those arms and face mask. It would only seem right for them to be returned to a natural human state.

Also has anyone questioned whether or not Quan Chi had the warriors souls or if it was their bodies reanimated? I mean we never saw their dead bodies again, maybe he doesn't actually have their souls. Also, why in the hell would their souls look like zombies?

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I don't care if Johnny was brought back in the past. Everything after MK4 was bs to me anyway. And it would most definitely be forced. He was turned into a cyborg. That pissed off a lot of Sub Zero fans... And so turning him back into a human would feel like a forced fan service.

I mean if they can come up with something fantastic in turning him back into a human, I'm all for it. But the MK writers aren't exactly top notch.

I guess maybe if they bring him back in a way similar to how Sindel was brought back, it could work. Her body basically regenerated from bones. So perhaps Sub Zero would grow back into his human self considering the cybernetic shit isn't exactly organic material.

And that would work for the others as well.

I wouldn't mind Quan Chi workin his hocus pocus and resurrecting them to fight for Shinnok. So long as it's done right.

Subz

1.) I never said EVERYONE liked subzero's shredder look. I can just see how a majority of people are cool/liked it. which is a majority.


2.) Nobody here is bashing you, Dunno where you're getting that. We just think it's extremely blind of you to ignore growth as a cyborg character.

3.) Expression of a robot huh?

Do you know the difference between a cyborg and a Robot? Please go look it up.


Nevermind I'll tell you.

A Cyborg IS STILL A HUMAN, they just have mechanical parts.

Makoto? A cyborg she's mostly mechanical but she keeps her original brain in her body.

A ROBOT, is 100% mechanical. Runs on Developed AI ect ect.

They are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. So that analogy fails.

Critical-Limit said:

Subz

1.) I never said EVERYONE liked subzero's shredder look. I can just see how a majority of people are cool/liked it. which is a majority.


2.) Nobody here is bashing you, Dunno where you're getting that. We just think it's extremely blind of you to ignore growth as a cyborg character.

3.) Expression of a robot huh?

Do you know the difference between a cyborg and a Robot? Please go look it up.


Nevermind I'll tell you.

A Cyborg IS STILL A HUMAN, they just have mechanical parts.

Makoto? A cyborg she's mostly mechanical but she keeps her original brain in her body.

A ROBOT, is 100% mechanical. Runs on Developed AI ect ect.

They are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. So that analogy fails.

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I know what a cyborg is. I get it. To me though, Jax is a cyborg. Kabal could be considered a cyborg. Cyrax, Sektor, and Sub-Zero are all robots. Despite what the MK team says. Hell even in the media like the movies and that recent MK show depicted them as robots, not cyborgs. Hell, they have no human resemblance whatsoever anymore.

Yeah, he's got his brain. Like we have said though, that could be hacked at anytime, and with Sektor still alive it shouldn't be out of the realm of possiblity that it would happen.

Let me just tell you other elements that are gone. I don't neccessarily want Sub-Zero to repeat the same things he did in the old timeline. I've said I want him to do different things.

Say he does though. When he fights Sektor the fight for humanity there is completely gone. People say no it isn't, he is still fighting for humanity. The fact is though Sektor has humanity too. He still has his mind just like Sub-Zero.

Sub-Zero beating Sektor now should basically be a thankyou to Sektor because it's like saying thanks to these mechanical parts I can now beat your arse Sektor. Something I couldn't do apparently to save myself from becoming a cyborg. So the whole fight for humanity... Gone. Doesn't exist anymore. Because now it's cyborg vs cyborg.

Also, you missed my point on him being able to EXPRESS emotion. No smiles, sadness, anger, none of that can be expressed.

One more thing. The bashing I'm referring too is the like five on two thing you guys have going here. At first it seemed like some were completely neutral then it turned into like You, BBLP, MetalOverlord, and Jinko all ganging up. I like Metal, but it seemed like he didn't even have a dog in the fight until you stepped in. Then it seemed like it turned into let's rape these guys for preferring Human Subz, how dare they?

Also, one more time back to the shredder attire. Now people like it. NOW, Present tense. When that thing was revealed though, I have never seen soo much hate. People were very negative if I can remember right, and I loved it. It made sense for his character. The whole cyber thing just doesn't make sense to me.

First off, why didn't Raiden save him? Huh? That still hasn't been answered. Then you guys say well he didn't want to get Smoke caught. Well, that's not the case. Because as I've said Cyrax and Sektor could sense Sub-Zero was in the area, so why couldn't they sense Smoke there as well? Protecting Smoke wasn't the case. Raiden stepping in and saying they have no business here shouldn't have upset anyone, and at least then Raiden, Smoke, Cage, and Kun Lao could have gave Sub-Zero a chance to escape.

If we want to talk about Forced, that whole scene just felt forced. They did it for Shock Value. Like I said, that's great and all, but fans didn't jump to it like they thought might happen. It has thoroughly divided the fanbase, and a good portion of people hate cyber subz. If there were ever a time they should reverse something I would say this would be a prime example.

@ RicochetMatt

Wait, Didn't Cage die in MK3? That was one of the times I was referring to, maybe I'm mistaken. Also, I love the story all the way through Armageddon so I consider everything that has been done.

Anyway, you see my point well though. Metal isn't organic, and if the characters are brought back it seems like it would make more sense for them to be human. Sub-Zero included. Just because his fans want him to be human again doesn't mean it's cheap to turn him back into a human if it makes sense. Hell, that's probably why they made him die in the first place.

No you're wrong.

when you damage sektor/cyrax. You can see brain matter. And they still have skeletons.

They are cyborgs. So you're enforcing your own definition on something that isn't even there.

You don't need FACIAL expressions to have emotions.

If you couldn't tell the disdain in his voice when noob told him "We share blood but we are not brothers"

I dunno what to tell you dude.



Dude no one knows why raiden didn't save him.

Fail way of making him a cyborg I dunno. Maybe the tournament rules prevented him from doing so or he'd be punished.

I don't know man I'm not a developer. Only thing I can think of is he saw some kind of worse outcome for saving him. I think in the original timeline when they captured smoke, those lin kuei cyborgs couldn't go after subzero because they were taking smoke back to HQ. This time, maybe those guys woke up and went and captured Subzero instead still being present.

But bottom line is no one knows, no one can answer that question for you. speculating it is pointless because why?

It happened, they're not gonna put out a patch to "Fix" the storyline for you.

I actually prefer human Sub-Zero to Cyber Sub-Zero, though

I'm not really trying to "gang up" on you with other people if that's how you feel, because I'm not really the type of person to want to get in groups, anyway

I ALSO prefer human over robot by purely aesthetics,

But I'm not gonna sit here and pretend he can't become a great character as a cyborg though, and make up the worse plot devices I can think of to stun his growth.

Critical-Limit said:

No you're wrong.

when you damage sektor/cyrax. You can see brain matter. And they still have skeletons.

They are cyborgs. So you're enforcing your own definition on something that isn't even there.

You don't need FACIAL expressions to have emotions.

If you couldn't tell the disdain in his voice when noob told him "We share blood but we are not brothers"

I dunno what to tell you dude.



Dude no one knows why raiden didn't save him.

Fail way of making him a cyborg I dunno. Maybe the tournament rules prevented him from doing so or he'd be punished.

I don't know man I'm not a developer. Only thing I can think of is he saw some kind of worse outcome for saving him. I think in the original timeline when they captured smoke, those lin kuei cyborgs couldn't go after subzero because they were taking smoke back to HQ. This time, maybe those guys woke up and went and captured Subzero instead still being present.

But bottom line is no one knows, no one can answer that question for you. speculating it is pointless because why?

It happened, they're not gonna put out a patch to "Fix" the storyline for you.

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They're cyborgs that look like robots. There we can reach a happy medium. Kano would also be a good example of a cyborg. A full on robotic suit leans more towards robot if you ask me, but whatever. Also, they had to hack into Sub-Zero to even get his mind back. Before that he operated like a fully operational robot.

You could tell the disdain I guess, but honestly you did have to look for it. It could have still been asked "So, I'm guessing you're angry saying that?" As far as story goes, it's going to be hard for people to look at him as a human, with human emotions, with human hopes, human dreams, when all people can do is see and treat him as a weapon. He can't feel touch, he can't show emotion, and if he gets hit too hard he could lose any humanity he may have. It's just not a good direction for him.

That's still something you didn't answer. If this isn't a bad direction for Sub-Zero to take, then what is? I honestly want to know what could be worse for him than this because I don't know.

Also you're right. They are not going to "fix" or patch this game's storyline. That doesn't mean that I can't express my displeasure with it though so that they might FIX it in the next game. I don't want that thing back in my game unless it's as a costume or something. I want Sub-Zero reverted and as long as me and other fans continue to voice our opinion then there's a good chance it will happen.

Also let it be known that as hard as I argue to have him reverted, You are arguing just as hard to have him stay cyber. Since you say it doesn't matter to you either way, it seems awfully weird that you fight so hard for something that really doesn't matter. You say I have a bias, which admittedly I do. I'm starting to think you may have an equal bias in the opposite direction.

Edit:

@Metal

It's cool. It was just getting hard to reply to anything because by the time I get a post out like four of you had something to bash another post. It's hard as hell to argue with four people because you can't get one train of thought going.

@Critical

I'm not making up plot devices to stunt anyone's growth. I'm simply looking at the past and how the cyborgs have been portrayed. Look at cyrax. They never can seem to find a place to fit him in the storyline, he always ends up getting randomly thrown into storylines. What about Smoke? Didn't even make another appearance until Deception and even then he turned out controlled by someone else and had to share a roster spot. Basically the track records of the cyborgs isn't that great, and I don't want Sub-Zero to be a victim of that. Sektor was probably the most ignored as he didn't appear in DA or Deception AT ALL.

Honestly, just look at it as being looked at like a normal human being. Do you not think people would pity Sub-Zero for being a cyborg? People would not be able to look at him normally in a real world.

Also, with the Sub-Zero name being ya know important. It still bothers me that as a cyborg, he cannot reproduce. The Sub-Zero bloodline should be something explored in the future games because for their to be like 6 or 7 Sub-Zeros it seems like that would be on Kuai Liang's mind. Call me crazy for liking that element of his story, but that really bothers me.

he can show emotion dude, your just making stuff up.

Once again he had disdain when Noob talked to him. And you can HEAR the emotion in his voice. He SCREAMS when you kick him, so he feels pain bro.

No I'm not arguing just as hard to make him Cyber. I'm just showing how UNOPEN you are to his growth.

I don't care ANY DIRECTION HE GOES. human or cyborg. (Though I slightly prefer human over cyborg but not at the cost of making NRS change him back in 1 game later refer to BBBLP's point)

So I have less bias than you.



EDIT:

There would be no arguing from me, If At the very start of this conversation.

You just said

Yo dawgs I like human subzero better, no particular exact reason because any reason I could try to think of can be easily countered. I just want him to stay human just cuz.

You don't need a reason to justify what you want.


Someone might tell you they like jumping off 2 story buildings and trying to land unharmed. Do they need to explain to you why this is fun to them? No. Sometimes you can't explain what you like.


I also want a Subzero human slightly more so. But I'm not gonna make up BS lies about a cyborg alternates story route as if only bad options are available to him.

Yeah, he can show emotion and has shown emotion before, directly after he got reprogrammed (he was enraged at what he did for Shao Kahn and the Lin Kuei while under their control)