Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

Some progress on Kabal, I'm cutting most of the detail in to this mesh instead of using normal maps.

Workflow is starting with a simple model, sculpt some details on it and retopologize it. Some parts of the base model are used on the retopology mesh if it speeds things up.



 
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The problem with uKER's images are that they are blurry, the smudging and touchups took away all of the sharpness. MrMos' images maintains the sharpness, it looks more realistic and less like a drawing.
 
MrMos3s, there's nothing terribly wrong with your render. It's just that I'm a perfectionist freak and I love it when a redo gets to the point of being able to pass for a better resolution copy of the same image, or as close as it can get.
I guess it's only noticeable upon comparison, but in my image I not only tried to match every single contour, but also every light spot (except for the nose maybe), and every skin tone area (eg reddish face, yellowish body, purple-ish nose, etc).

If the problem with my image is fine detail, here's a sharper version.
Let me know if there's anywhere you can see any undesired blurriness.

I added yours for comparison to see if there is really that much of a difference in realism.

At this point more than the Cage image itself, for me it's a matter of knowing whether it's worth dedicating more time to this project, ie, whether I can do anything that you'll consider worth using.

CageSBS_zpsa8540765.jpg


BTW, I did start from a render, or maybe from one of your touchups.
It's just that massive amounts of liquify to match everything in place, and lots of smearing to do the light sculpting, also do a massive amount of detail killing.

Now, about the accuracy I'm talking about, here's what I mean.
Take a step or two away from your monitor and it should become clear.

Cage_zps2c0c1036.gif
 
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Yours does look a lot closer to the original Cage image uKER, the sharpness is better than your previous ones but it still has a painted look. The problem is that It would not look consistent with the other character images.

You did a great job though, I can tell you put in a lot of effort.
 
I vastly prefer MrMos3s's versions. Frankly I've had misgivings about pretty much every version of the Cage portrait posted here so far, especially with regards to the mouth and the hair, but I'm satisfied with MrMos3s's last version. It looks close enough to the original portrait; it looks realistic enough; and it looks enough like Pesina/the in-game model. uKER's one may succeed on the first point but I think it fails on the second two.

I think many of the earlier versions posted, and especially the ones by uKER stick to the original picture to a fault. The resolution and quality is simply too low to make a high-resolution version without having to fill in some of the details using your imagination, and I think the issue with uKER's portrait is that every single detail adheres to the upscaled version of the original without enough consideration to what would look "good" or "more realistic". Simple math dictates that if the picture is enlarged by 500% there is several pixels' worth of leeway for what can be considered 'accurate' to the original picture. Let me provide a visual aid to help explain:

cage_gif.gif


This is the GIF uKER posted, scaled down to something close to the original resolution. The shoulders look different from the original, sure, but the face is virtually indistinguishable! So I think it's disingenuous to claim that uKER's version is more accurate - I think it's closer to the truth to say that MrMos3s took more creative liberties when "filling in the blanks" (and my personal opinion is that the final portrait is much better off for it). uKER's version tries to stick as close as possible, but by doing that introduces issues like an exaggerated underbite, an unnaturally straight neck, confusingly asymmetric sunglasses, and a very strange looking giant ear. I agree that uKER's portrait sticks out from the others with its very smooth, airbrushed look, but it's primarily these kinds of things that make me prefer MrMos3s's version hands down.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, or to mean that your work is unwanted or without merit, uKER. My viewpoint is that anyone is welcome to contribute whatever work they want, and I'm sure I speak for most people when I say that any kind of contribution is welcome. I think there's an implicit understanding that not everyone's contributions will be put in the game, but I hope that doesn't deter anyone from contributing, whether it's art, sounds, or simply thoughts or opinions. Even if people prefer MrMos3s's Cage portrait, I think your work is valuable in providing a second opinion or an alternate view on how things can be done. That's absolutely useful IMO, so please don't be afraid to contribute just because you're afraid pictures you create won't end up in the final game.
 
uKER portait has problems like sharp edges for hair. However mouth, nose, body look definetely better.
Ears, neck arean't really important I guess, but look close.
 
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uKER portait has problems like shart edges for hair. However mouth, nose, body look definetely better.
Ears, neck arean't really important I guess, but look close.
Thanks for your comments.
Much appreciated.

These things take far too much time as for them to be made to make a point for someone else to do the actual drawing.
I may throw in some opinion every now and then, but as far as producing actual pictures, I guess I'll be sitting this one out.

That said, my biggest problems with MrMos3s' picture are:
- Huge chin and jaw. Shadows and highlights on the chin need to be corrected, and so does the jaw's angle on the left of the picture.
- Much wider cheekbones, and head in general at that level. Inner side of ears should be much closer to each other.
- Hairline too straight on the left side of the picture (it's curve; only the hair's shadow gives the impression of it being straighter)
- Mouth is a bit lower than it should
- Lower half of crease beside the mouth on the left of the picture should be a lot less pronounced

Now, seeing these, it's funny how easily you go enumerating errors in my picture such as the neck being too straight (???) and one ear too big (I give you that one), but nobody seems to point out these in MrMos3s'. Needless to say, I also fail to see the big deal difference in realism, but oh well...
 
I vastly prefer MrMos3s's versions. Frankly I've had misgivings about pretty much every version of the Cage portrait posted here so far, especially with regards to the mouth and the hair, but I'm satisfied with MrMos3s's last version. It looks close enough to the original portrait; it looks realistic enough; and it looks enough like Pesina/the in-game model. uKER's one may succeed on the first point but I think it fails on the second two.

I think many of the earlier versions posted, and especially the ones by uKER stick to the original picture to a fault. The resolution and quality is simply too low to make a high-resolution version without having to fill in some of the details using your imagination, and I think the issue with uKER's portrait is that every single detail adheres to the upscaled version of the original without enough consideration to what would look "good" or "more realistic". Simple math dictates that if the picture is enlarged by 500% there is several pixels' worth of leeway for what can be considered 'accurate' to the original picture. Let me provide a visual aid to help explain:

cage_gif.gif


This is the GIF uKER posted, scaled down to something close to the original resolution. The shoulders look different from the original, sure, but the face is virtually indistinguishable! So I think it's disingenuous to claim that uKER's version is more accurate - I think it's closer to the truth to say that MrMos3s took more creative liberties when "filling in the blanks" (and my personal opinion is that the final portrait is much better off for it). uKER's version tries to stick as close as possible, but by doing that introduces issues like an exaggerated underbite, an unnaturally straight neck, confusingly asymmetric sunglasses, and a very strange looking giant ear. I agree that uKER's portrait sticks out from the others with its very smooth, airbrushed look, but it's primarily these kinds of things that make me prefer MrMos3s's version hands down.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, or to mean that your work is unwanted or without merit, uKER. My viewpoint is that anyone is welcome to contribute whatever work they want, and I'm sure I speak for most people when I say that any kind of contribution is welcome. I think there's an implicit understanding that not everyone's contributions will be put in the game, but I hope that doesn't deter anyone from contributing, whether it's art, sounds, or simply thoughts or opinions. Even if people prefer MrMos3s's Cage portrait, I think your work is valuable in providing a second opinion or an alternate view on how things can be done. That's absolutely useful IMO, so please don't be afraid to contribute just because you're afraid pictures you create won't end up in the final game.

I couldn't have said it better. It was like you read my mind while writing this.
 
I see what you are saying but you value shape and contour/color accuracy at the detriment of texture and detail. Unfortunately to everyone who likes MrMos3s version better the impact of correct shape/contour/color is overshadowed by the loss of detail. I can't tell you how many well meaning and talented artists such as yourself whos work we did not use. I know that it is difficult not to be offended when you work hard on something and no one seems to appreciate it. We DO appreciate it since your artist's eye can help MrMos3s improve the work he is doing. That being said, your Cage thumbnail is too stylistically different to consider for this project. That is a valid criticism. This community project actually looks pro (some would disagree) because the art doesn't look like a hodgepodge of several artists work. Hope you stick around and help us make a better game.

Thanks for your comments.
Much appreciated.


These things take far too much time as for them to be made to make a point for someone else to do the actual drawing.
I may throw in some opinion every now and then, but as far as producing actual pictures, I guess I'll be sitting this one out.

That said, my biggest problems with MrMos3s' picture are:
- Huge chin and jaw. Shadows and highlights on the chin need to be corrected, and so does the jaw's angle on the left of the picture.
- Much wider cheekbones, and head in general at that level. Inner side of ears should be much closer to each other.
- Hairline too straight on the left side of the picture (it's curve; only the hair's shadow gives the impression of it being straighter)
- Mouth is a bit lower than it should
- Lower half of crease beside the mouth on the left of the picture should be a lot less pronounced

Now, seeing these, it's funny how easily you go enumerating errors in my picture such as the neck being too straight (???) and one ear too big (I give you that one), but nobody seems to point out these in MrMos3s'. Needless to say, I also fail to see the big deal difference in realism, but oh well...
 
The uKER version look's much more close to original pic , i like that , but is to blurring . The MrMos3s version have good hair, more realistic and not so blur but the face, the glasses are far from original Cage.
 
uKER, by the neck being straight, I mean that in your portrait the outlines of the neck form 100% perfectly vertical lines. It's the same with the outline of the hair on the left side. It looks to me like you didn't account for the (very likely) slight curvatures of these lines that the original low-resolution photo would not have been able to capture.

The reason I can easily list issues I have with your portrait compared to MrMos3s's is very simple. The ones in your portrait stand out to me because they look unnatural, whereas the things you listed in MrMos3s's portrait simply don't correspond 100% to an upscaled version of the original picture. And that's really the gist of my argument; I think it's a fallacy to simply enlarge the original photo and say THIS is what it needs to look like, especially when it comes to finer details. You're bound to make assumptions based on how a computer algorithm resizes the picture, and slavishly adhering to that just isn't inherently beneficial IMO. I'm struggling to find the words to express what I'm trying to say, but it's the point I'm trying to make with the smaller version of the comparison animation; I think it's impossible to argue that a particular shadow or hairline is inaccurate in MrMos3s's version, when - in the original resolution - it's really no more or less different from the original than uKER's version is.

As far as the sunglasses go, I again much prefer MrMos3s's version. Yes the reflections are clearly different from the original picture, but they make sense. The placement and colour of pixels in uKER's version is closer to the original picture, yes, but they make no spatial sense to me. Looking at the picture makes me very confused about the shape of the sunglasses, how they are lit to cause such a reflection, and how they sit on Cage's face. Completely disregarding comparisons to the original graphics, the glasses in MrMos3s's version look convincing to me, the ones in uKER's don't. I get that there's a desire to stay as close as possibly imaginable to the original game, but I also think there has to be room for some creative license or the results will suffer for it. But if there's anything I've learnt from the past 400 pages of discussion, is that every single person has a different idea of when, why and by how much something is allowed to be the slightest bit different from the original game. That's why I think it's important to have these discussions, so that everyone can explain and argue their viewpoint in order to reach some kind of consensus. Noone's going to be happy with everything - personally I still don't care for the way certain things look, I kind of hate the upscaled fonts for instance - but at least this way there can hopefully at least be a better understanding of WHY things end up the way they do.


Once again, not trying to step on any toes, just trying to explain why I feel the way I do, as thoroughly as I can.


I might very well take a stab at the portrait and see if there's anything I feel I can improve myself.
 
outlines of the neck form 100% perfectly vertical lines
Yeah, like I said about hair, similar problem here.
MrMos3s can improve his version, doesn't require many efforts.
 
uker's job is amazing, very talented but if you compare all the portraits next to his portrait you will notice the difference right away, I'm not saying either that he can't achieve realism cause I've seen so many realistic drawings out there that just blows my mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7XPuSg2-Bw&list=UU3nQFc6_-ZmrcV5HN3WUHMw&index=10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taHChX7kPKA&list=UU3nQFc6_-ZmrcV5HN3WUHMw&index=2

for example nico di mattia, he is just amazing, and you can see that even if the drawing is a caricature he can achieve realistic portraits no matter what, and I know he is nico and uker is uker but there's a noticible difference between others portraits and uker's cage.

please don't be mad at us, but for example me.... I HAVE DONE LIU'S MOTHER LIKE 3 TIMES, and I ended up using someone else model and fixing a few things to match our needs.. so please keep with us and share your good work
 
Fixed his nostril and his hair. I'm still really liking Bleed's reflection on the glasses and I don't think the difference will change the feel of the original too much, but there seems to be mixed feelings on this still. Let me know what you guys think.

attachment.php


That's PERFECT!!!! Nice Job MrMos3s! I agree that the reflections on the glasses are much more accurate to real lighting, but not accurate to the game, so I guess it just boils down to how anal will you be? My vote is keep the realistic reflections. You can tell they just added the glint for effect on the game photo anyway.
 
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