Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

Why can't there be double sprites for asymmetrical models? (I believe this topic was explored more in-depth with regard to Kano's faceplate.) I know technically in the old games they simply reversed them, and you couldn't really tell because of the low-res graphics, but I think such a move would look more problematic in HD.
 
^Not only faceplate, his ammunition blet too. Kano is the most asymmetrically looking character in mk1.
Interloko or Bleed can explain this better than me, but as far as I know double sprites are not an option if you want this game to run smoothly and Shang Tsung's transformations to work properly.

Original game had much less sprites for every move - Cage stance is like 6-7 sprites, and Bleeds HD is more like 20-30 and much larger in kilobytes. Interloko is already reducing sprite count to minimum where they look smooth enough. I don't have much experience with coding and MUGEN but I believe for Shang Tsung transformations to work like in the original you need all character sprites in the same folder, and with double sprites in it, it would lag. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I think flipping looks good on the ninjas, but it probably will look a bit odd on Kano. If done right I think you won't notice it that much in the middle of the game, unless you specifically look for it.
 
Bleed said:
I was having some problems with the shoulder bones flipping when he moves his arms in certain ways, but I seem to have found a way to fix it. Removing some of the extra bones I had for adjusting the muscle shapes, and shifting the pivot point of the clavicles out further to the sides instead. Half way between the head and shoulders.


The final will need to flip the sash, lights and hair mid way though the animation. Sucks to have to do that, but we can't have double sprites for asymmetrical models.

WIP turn anim:
Save and play it with quick time, if you want to see it frame by frame.

Click to expand...

is looking great like always, about the flipping thing... is not easier to do it like they probably did when making mk1? using photshop shop and flipping the first frame??
 
Bleed said:
In MK1, he flips half way through, on the 3rd frame. You see the sash pop from one side to the other.
Click to expand...

I think the best way to handle the belt flipping is to actually animate it twisting on his waste into position. It'll be less noticeable than it would if it just pops into position. But don't kill yourself on it, if it is only one frame running at 60 fps, it'll be extremely minor.
 
Great work on the animation.

About the flip, if you made the animation perfectly symmetrical, maybe you can just hflip and reverse the animation and do a cross fade between the two.

eg, given frames 1,2,3,4,5, generate frames as follows:
Frame A: 100% frame 1 (0% flipped frame 5, duh)
Frame B: 75% frame 2, 25% flipped frame 4
Frame C: 100% frame 3 (don't blend to avoid double image due to frame's own assymetry)
Frame D: 25% frame 4, 75% flipped frame 2
Frame E: (0% frame 5), 100% flipped frame 1

Note that you start with frame 1 and end up with flipped frame 1.

Definitely crappier than animating the whole stuff but will probably look less jumpy and might save you some time.
Might work for Kano too.
 
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]{0MBAT said:
Why can't there be double sprites for asymmetrical models? (I believe this topic was explored more in-depth with regard to Kano's faceplate.) I know technically in the old games they simply reversed them, and you couldn't really tell because of the low-res graphics, but I think such a move would look more problematic in HD.
Click to expand...

i am agree with ]{0MBAT,
with this assumption that we can solve the cage's belt problem anyway, what should we do with kano's face?
i think it would be so inappropriate and odd to simply reversed an asymmetrically character in such HD game with so exact details.
remember "We should not repeat the predecessors mistakes" and mistakes should not become a mode and they should cut from a where.
 
Hey Guys, I made some modifications in the model of Sonya before starting the animation again, I tried to make the closest to the original, in its position of fight.Sonya M1.2.jpg
 
Man, that looks SO much better. :)
Body proportions look spot on, and her face's likeness is also real good.
You also did a great job in matching each type of fabric in her outfit.

The only problem I see is that her pose looks kind of stiff, not very "fighter-ish".
To improve this:
- Her back should be arched forward, and her shoulders should be hunched forward. Note how in the original her chin appears vertically aligned with he front edge of her belly, and her chest and belly look sunken behind her shoulders.
- Her right shoulder should be posed a bit higher. See how the top of it is almost horizontal.
- Her feet should be further apart. Look at the angle formed by her knees and her crotch, and the rectangle formed by her feet and her knees. Also her right foot is a tad closer to the camera than her left.
- Her left elbow should be further from the body. Look at the angle of her left upper arm.

Also:
- Her hair should be shorter and a less straight. That makes her head look bigger in the original. It shouldn't reach more than like half an inch below the chin, and certainly shouldn't fall over the shoulders.
- That crease between her right shoulder and her body should't go that high up. May be the shoulders are lacking a bit of extra volume that would make them blend into the body a bit more.
- The green strip over her left shoulder should go a tiny bit closer to her neck, so there's more of her left shoulder visible.
- The bones in the top of her hand I think are too harshly apparent.

EDIT: Here's this comparison I threw together to illustrate my comments. For the matching I used the torso's size (from the crotch to the shoulders).

Sonya_zps2544e3ce.gif~original


Now that I see the comparison, in the original she looks overall beefier. The head should be a bit bigger still, her shoulders should be wider, her upper arms should be longer, and her calves should be thicker.
Also, her left knee looks a bit more pointed to the right (her front) and not so much at the camera.
 
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Just flip the images like uKER said. Really, unless a person is specifically looking for it, they won't even notice. Maybe I'm just too much of an old school game lover, but that's the way it was done in the original. MK9 has them turn completely around with their back facing the camera.
 
Yeah, I don't like the MK9 approach either.
My choice would be the characters always facing the camera, but having the asymmetrical elements flip properly as in SFIV (eg Sagat's eyepatch).

I thought of something like rendering the characters as symmetrical and having the asymmetrical elements as overlays in the engine.
This, while probably better performance-wise, this would probably be overly tedious to implement, both for the programmer and the sprite designers.
If it is only a performance matter, can't you at least add the option for machines that can handle it?
Or at least render the sprites and keep them around in case some day you figure out a way to actually use them.
 
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We don't really need to be spending time on extra details for systems that can handle it. I'd rather keep rolling with more important things.

Having double sprites for turning would be awesome, but at the same time not worth the effort.
 
Fair enough.
Just for the record, I updated my post where I commented on Cris Berserk's Sonya, and added a comparison GIF I made.
I also edited some of my comments and added a couple of additional ones based on stuff that became apparent from the direct comparison.
 
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uKER said:
Fair enough.
Just for the record, I updated my post where I commented on Cris Berserk's Sonya, and added a comparison GIF I made.
I also edited some of my comments and added a couple of additional ones based on stuff that became apparent from the direct comparison.
Click to expand...

I did the Sonya based on the original image, and I believe that the original image that i used was a little stretched. i will use this image gif made by you Uker, to make new adjustments, I believe that the next image that i post the Sonya will get better. And thank you by comparing the images.
 
Cris Berserk said:
I did the Sonya based on the original image, and I believe that the original image that i used was a little stretched. i will use this image gif made by you Uker, to make new adjustments, I believe that the next image that i post the Sonya will get better. And thank you by comparing the images.
Click to expand...
Not a problem.
With each version you've posted it has improved miles.
Next one will surely be no different.
Let me know if I can help you with anything else.
 
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