Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

Yeah, Test Your Might and Morphs already were done in MK1 by interloko..


Never knew about that, only can say it has limit in explods/helpers.)
is not a limit by the engine, just a "limit" by us if we want to make it good and don't take ages to load :p


And for the best possible experience IMO (providing you have the money) make your own MK1 HD cab to play it on. That's what I'll be doing once this is complete. It will be spectacular.
i already have the buttons and arcade sticks with the same colors of the original arcade , i made 2 cabinets in the past :p
 
is not a limit by the engine, just a "limit" by us if we want to make it good and don't take ages to load :p



i already have the buttons and arcade sticks with the same colors of the original arcade , i made 2 cabinets in the past :p

Awesome, I've never made a cab before but now I have a reason to. Would be great if you showed a video of this project running on one of your cabs :)

Also, when you say it would take ages to load with the ideal amount of sprites, how long do you estimate it would load? I'm just interested because if it was a reasonable amount of time, we could maybe place a loading bar in to ease the waiting period. You're the expert on this, I'm just curious about it. If you're not sure then maybe we could test it.
 
Hello everyone. I'm Jiggeh, also known in some corners of the web as Jigsaw. I'm newly registered here at TRMK but I'm a longtime MK fan and an on-again, off-again member of the online MK community since the MK5.org days. I think this project sounds very interesting, and it seems to be off to a good start already. There is a lot of work that needs to be done though, of course, so I would be happy to help out in whatever capacity I'm capable.

I'm not as experienced as Bleed, in fact I'm fresh out of trade school, but technically I'm a professional 3D artist. :) I would love to help out with creating graphics for the game, time permitting, but if nothing else I will make sure to share my expertise and give whatever feedback I can to help give the game as professional and coherent a look as possible. If you're curious about my credentials, please take a look at some of my stuff:

Portfolio
deviantArt

Unfortunately, I don't really have a computer I can work on for now, and I can't make any promises in terms of commitment, but I should be getting a half-decent computer within a month or so - we'll see then what I will be actually capable of doing, I suppose. If I'm able though, I'd love to help out with character art. If not creating any whole characters from start to finish I should at least be able to help out with modelling some props, clothing, or various doodads for other artists to make use of.



In close to 90 pages of discussion, there is obviously quite a bit to comment on, and I'll get there eventually I suppose, but for now I'll choose to comment on a few things.

First off, Bleed, amazing job with the ninja so far. You're obviously off to a smashing start, and the early animation work you've done is setting the bar very high - exactly where it needs to be. Animation in particular is thankless and time-consuming work, but when done well can really lift the overall visuals, and I'm very confident that thanks to you one of the most difficult aspects to pull off will be at the level where it needs to be.

Having said that, I do have some thoughts with regards to your work and techniques. One thing that immediately stood out to me when looking at the pictures posted earlier, comparing your art to the original, and in the discussions about size and proportions, is that the camera settings you're using for your the rendering of the sprites seem to be a little off. Adjusting the camera distance and FOV can drastically alter how a character appears, and from the looks of things that seemed to me to be the biggest reason why the feet of your sprites and those of the original didn't line up. For all I know you might've done a lot of experimenting with it already, but since it hadn't been discussed I thought it worth bringing up at least. On a related note, if in the end other artists end up responsible for rendering sprites for other characters, there needs to be a consensus on things like camera settings, lighting, etc to make sure that consistency is maintained.

Another thing I thought about has to do with colours, and colour palettes. First of all I'm somewhat concerned that much of the graphics being created (not just by Bleed) may be a bit on the dark side - not necessarily a problem in that dark = bad, but by nature dark = less colour information, and that by extension means colour adjustment/correction becomes more difficult. Until more elements are in place, I would think it's a good idea to keep things not too dark, as it could make things a lot easier down the road. Moreover, despite its great mood and atmosphere, the original game really isn't that DARK most of the time - it's often more implied, and by keeping it that way more detail in the artwork is visible, and by making sure some stages aren't pitch black while others are super bright (Goro's Lair vs Palace Gates, for instance), the characters will never look too out of place in any one background.

So OK, that was a bit of a tangent, and not directly related to your work, Bleed, but here's my point - by making certain parts of the character too dark (or rather rendering them that way), you risk both making 2P colour palette creation more difficult, as well as just losing detail in general. Whether anything ends up being changed "in post" or not, it's ALWAYS best to keep as many doors open as you can, so for that reason it may be a good idea to do things a little differently, as a safety measure, so to speak. With the ninjas in particular, a lot of their outfit is black, but it may be a good idea to make it brighter (or even a completely different colour altogether) to make for easier colour separation and increased detail, and then modifying the palette of the final 256-colour sprite to achieve the desired results. I think I'm making this needlessly wordy, but I'm sure you get my point.

I think this becomes even more important when it comes to creating alternative colour palettes for the characters, especially ones that don't have as easily separated primary colours as the ninjas do. The 2P colours in the original MK were obviously a complete afterthought (in fact in the very earliest releases both players could not use the same character, SF2WW-style) and I think we can all agree that they look absolutely terrible. That's one aspect of the original game that I see absolutely no point in recreating. There doesn't have to be loads of extra colours for each character (though I would personally welcome it - but that's a separate discussion), but I think it's important that each character has two, easily distinguishable colour palettes. Most characters' 2P colour in the original game was just a slightly darker version, which not only looked bad, it also made it needlessly difficult to distinguish the players from each other (I can't believe MK9 has the same problem, 19 years later - but I digress). So my suggestion would be to render Liu Kang with brighter pants, Raiden with a blue tunic, or whatever. Of course, the default colour palette would still correspond to the original game, but you would be enabled to create much better looking alternate palettes.

Gah, sorry for being so verbose, I have a hard time expressing myself succinctly... I even had a lot more that I wanted to say, but I'm about to be booted out of the office, so it'll have to wait. I guess that's for the better anyway. :p
 
^ I like this guy.

I feel I have a lot in common with you in regards to this project, and I'm looking forward to discussions on it.

I also see that you were involved in the SORR, excellent work, I love that game. I'd be great to have you on board for this one in whatever capacity. :)
 
Hello everyone. I'm Jiggeh, also known in some corners of the web as Jigsaw. I'm newly registered here at TRMK but I'm a longtime MK fan and an on-again, off-again member of the online MK community since the MK5.org days. I think this project sounds very interesting, and it seems to be off to a good start already. There is a lot of work that needs to be done though, of course, so I would be happy to help out in whatever capacity I'm capable.

I'm not as experienced as Bleed, in fact I'm fresh out of trade school, but technically I'm a professional 3D artist. :) I would love to help out with creating graphics for the game, time permitting, but if nothing else I will make sure to share my expertise and give whatever feedback I can to help give the game as professional and coherent a look as possible. If you're curious about my credentials, please take a look at some of my stuff:

Portfolio
deviantArt

Unfortunately, I don't really have a computer I can work on for now, and I can't make any promises in terms of commitment, but I should be getting a half-decent computer within a month or so - we'll see then what I will be actually capable of doing, I suppose. If I'm able though, I'd love to help out with character art. If not creating any whole characters from start to finish I should at least be able to help out with modelling some props, clothing, or various doodads for other artists to make use of.



In close to 90 pages of discussion, there is obviously quite a bit to comment on, and I'll get there eventually I suppose, but for now I'll choose to comment on a few things.

First off, Bleed, amazing job with the ninja so far. You're obviously off to a smashing start, and the early animation work you've done is setting the bar very high - exactly where it needs to be. Animation in particular is thankless and time-consuming work, but when done well can really lift the overall visuals, and I'm very confident that thanks to you one of the most difficult aspects to pull off will be at the level where it needs to be.

Having said that, I do have some thoughts with regards to your work and techniques. One thing that immediately stood out to me when looking at the pictures posted earlier, comparing your art to the original, and in the discussions about size and proportions, is that the camera settings you're using for your the rendering of the sprites seem to be a little off. Adjusting the camera distance and FOV can drastically alter how a character appears, and from the looks of things that seemed to me to be the biggest reason why the feet of your sprites and those of the original didn't line up. For all I know you might've done a lot of experimenting with it already, but since it hadn't been discussed I thought it worth bringing up at least. On a related note, if in the end other artists end up responsible for rendering sprites for other characters, there needs to be a consensus on things like camera settings, lighting, etc to make sure that consistency is maintained.

Another thing I thought about has to do with colours, and colour palettes. First of all I'm somewhat concerned that much of the graphics being created (not just by Bleed) may be a bit on the dark side - not necessarily a problem in that dark = bad, but by nature dark = less colour information, and that by extension means colour adjustment/correction becomes more difficult. Until more elements are in place, I would think it's a good idea to keep things not too dark, as it could make things a lot easier down the road. Moreover, despite its great mood and atmosphere, the original game really isn't that DARK most of the time - it's often more implied, and by keeping it that way more detail in the artwork is visible, and by making sure some stages aren't pitch black while others are super bright (Goro's Lair vs Palace Gates, for instance), the characters will never look too out of place in any one background.

So OK, that was a bit of a tangent, and not directly related to your work, Bleed, but here's my point - by making certain parts of the character too dark (or rather rendering them that way), you risk both making 2P colour palette creation more difficult, as well as just losing detail in general. Whether anything ends up being changed "in post" or not, it's ALWAYS best to keep as many doors open as you can, so for that reason it may be a good idea to do things a little differently, as a safety measure, so to speak. With the ninjas in particular, a lot of their outfit is black, but it may be a good idea to make it brighter (or even a completely different colour altogether) to make for easier colour separation and increased detail, and then modifying the palette of the final 256-colour sprite to achieve the desired results. I think I'm making this needlessly wordy, but I'm sure you get my point.

I think this becomes even more important when it comes to creating alternative colour palettes for the characters, especially ones that don't have as easily separated primary colours as the ninjas do. The 2P colours in the original MK were obviously a complete afterthought (in fact in the very earliest releases both players could not use the same character, SF2WW-style) and I think we can all agree that they look absolutely terrible. That's one aspect of the original game that I see absolutely no point in recreating. There doesn't have to be loads of extra colours for each character (though I would personally welcome it - but that's a separate discussion), but I think it's important that each character has two, easily distinguishable colour palettes. Most characters' 2P colour in the original game was just a slightly darker version, which not only looked bad, it also made it needlessly difficult to distinguish the players from each other (I can't believe MK9 has the same problem, 19 years later - but I digress). So my suggestion would be to render Liu Kang with brighter pants, Raiden with a blue tunic, or whatever. Of course, the default colour palette would still correspond to the original game, but you would be enabled to create much better looking alternate palettes.

Gah, sorry for being so verbose, I have a hard time expressing myself succinctly... I even had a lot more that I wanted to say, but I'm about to be booted out of the office, so it'll have to wait. I guess that's for the better anyway. :p

Haha! I've a watcher of yours in deviantart! Dude your 3d Mk Models were great. . ! It'll really fit on Sims 2 . . By the way, I feel that you can contribute big here . .
 
Welcome @Jiggeh , i hope will be place in the team for one talented guy like u :) How much more professionals work on this project , will be better for all us :)
Waiting for your works :p
Cheers.
 
Welcome Jiggeh,

We need someone full-time interested in doing Projectile animations. If you have experience with recreating these animated effects (preferably in 3D) it maybe cool.

We need Shang Tsung, Goro, Lui Kang, Kano, Raiden, Jonny Cage. I'm sure a month from now you can hit the ground running on any of these.





Welcome @Jiggeh , i hope will be place in the team for one talented guy like u :) How much more professionals work on this project , will be better for all us :)
Waiting for your works :p
Cheers.
 
Okay so I had a listen Sub-Zera, and while the MK1 Theme is very nice, overall the tracks simply aren't high quality enough. There are other problems too. Warrior Shrine, The Pit, and Goro's Lair are all from the Sega Genesis version, not Arcade which is the version we are remaking.

Also, The Beginning - did you compose this? Because it sounds identical to The Grid AKA Zerobeats (who I am working with) 2003 composition on vgmusic: http://www.vgmusic.com/music/other/miscellaneous/arcade/mk1_continue1_zb.mid

Also, scroll to "Click here to listen to/download the requested file" to play the midi file.

And check out the Genesis MK midis here: http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/sega/genesis/index-gr.html
 
@Jarvis, No pick slides. I used a sample of real "Ice/Freeze". Good call on the flanger though. It did the job, but it's not to my liking really. I have a massive library of real recorded sounds, but they will probably be too realistic for most applications in this project. I get what you mean about keeping things recognizable though. Although the real "Freeze" sound is good/realistic, it doesn't sound like the classic blips and scrapes of the original. I've just gotta fine that line between classic and modern. I hybrid of the two actually sounds fun to me. :p

Speaking of which, I found a massive collection of retro arcadey sounds in my library that will work perfect for this project. They sound just like the old stuff, but in much better quality. :)

The workflow is usually sounds/samples from my library and various synths running through Sonar X1. Then I set up some pitch alterations, sound layering, envelopes, effects etc. to customize the sound to my needs.

@Smoke.Tetsu, indeed all the reverb-type effects should be added in realtime. I will use a bit of light delay from time to time, but not to add any spacial effects to the sound. More for mystical-sounding applications. All spacial effects are what should be used in real time, IMO.

I added a new sound at the bottom of the playlist, "Sub Zero Freeze Hit 5." I really like this one. I think it's very recognizable but still "fresh" sounding. Let me know what you think.

http://snack.to/5egwKM
 
we could maybe place a loading bar in to ease the waiting period
Funny to hear that, because MUGEN showing only black screen during load. xD
There's no need to put many frames in animations, MK1 was good even without that.

Here are MK1 musics I made. If you like them, just let us know.
Nice remixes, Sub-Zera, I like them. May be with few exceptions only.)

Recolored Palace Gates in accordance with MK1 colors, also may be need to make wall more red.)
7d931b70b8a8.png
 
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Also, when you say it would take ages to load with the ideal amount of sprites, how long do you estimate it would load? I'm just interested because if it was a reasonable amount of time, we could maybe place a loading bar in to ease the waiting period. You're the expert on this, I'm just curious about it. If you're not sure then maybe we could test it.

Also it begs the question.. what are the minimum system requirements being aimed for with this project? I'm sure it's not that all computers would take ages to load up the sprites if they had the ideal amount. I mean most reletively recent computers load up games with a lot more resources involved pretty quickly.

Also if it took forever on any computer (which I would consider pretty fail on the engine makers part if they where unable to optimize it in any way). How would the Shang Tsung morphs work?

BTW, if they are using OpenGL rendering they could probably use texture compression if memory is an issue although I think most modern computers have enough RAM even from just GPU for this. That is of course unless one is aiming to make it playable on computers from say... 10 years ago or something.
 
@Jiggeh, I appreciate your critique and attention to detail. Your work is amazing, it would be an honor to have you on the team.

I think it's best to have everybody work on what they naturally gravitate to, and combine our strengths for the final result.

You can choose what you would like to do, and we can work out a plan from there. There's a lot of work to do with the characters.


Sonya and the Ninja's have been started so far.



Most of what I know of 3D art work is self taught. There are many things I have to learn, so your input is very important, I'm always looking to improve. Dropping little tips like that is gold to me.
 
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Sorry but i have something to say...
Bleed, dont you think is better to do Shang Tsung after the other characters were finished?
I dont know about the morphs :s, but i your team will handle it :)
Anyways @Jiggeh, why dont you make a Goro? i have already seen yours in devian art and its fantastic, i realy like him without the armor, but if you make one, certyfy yourself to make a hi-resolution... After many time i see something that i dream comming to real life ^^
Thank you all
 
Shang Tsung is the base character, which has the sprites and code for every character in him.

This is how it needs to work in mugen so the morphing can be used as expected. Mugen can't load different character files for the morph.

You make all the characters in to one and change them using variables. You can think of it like the style change in MKDA, or Lei Wulong's stances in Tekken. Every stance is basically a different character, but all are part of the same one.

All their soul are belong to him...
 
So basically you'd load up all the characters into RAM at all times? I could see this taking some time on older computers but shouldn't be a show stopper on newer ones I'd say.
 
Bleed can you do me a favor? tell me how much % is ,Johnny Cage, Kano, Raiden, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Sonya, Goro, Shang Tsung, Reptile thanks man :)
 
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