Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

My take on the whole doing new things vs. copying Mk1 discussion: While I don't think anyone would argue that there are interesting things that could be done with changing or adding to what was in place with MK1, deciding WHAT that should be exactly would require a concensus, or at least some kind of creative decision. Simply doing everything the way it was in the original game has the inherent advantage of not needing any new creative decisions - when in doubt, do it the way MK1 did it. Whether it makes for the ideal final game or not, deciding not to deviate from the original MK1 gives everyone working on the game a common frame of reference without the need for any new game design or art direction, and I don't think the importance of that should be understated.

I'm super stoked about the idea of elaborating and building off of what we have once the game reaches a more complete state, but I still think following the mold of MK1 very closely is the best approach. Knowing what everything should look like beforehand more or less ensures that we get a cohesive look on the visual side, and that there are no surprises that end up causing problems gameplay wise either. The bottom line is that changing anything will inevitably require more work - if not for the artist creating the new assets, then for whoever is deciding what things should look like, and why.

I have lots of ideas for stuff I'd like to see eventually. Additional and more elaborate fatalities, alternate costumes, all kinds of new animations, you name it. And for what it's worth, I think MK1 is a terrible game in many regards, with no end of ways to improve it. Still, if this project is to have any hope of being completed, and reaching a desirable level of quality, I think these types of discussions are better left until it's been made clear that the group can finish a project like this in the first place. Deciding at this point that we want to do some things differently will just open up lots of new cans of worms that are likely to impede the progress of development and create the risk of people going off on their own with no clear direction for the group as a whole.



Edit: Oh, and a quick thought on endings. I don't think adding animation to the endings is likely to improve anything. As originally created the endings are not presented as stills from a video or a living scene, they appear more as more or less abstract, self contained illustrations of the narration. I don't think many of the endings lend themselves very well to being depicted in animated form, and I don't think there's much to gain from doing looping, animated versions of the original ending pictures either. It's like having a video of a person holding a pose for a camera instead of just a picture of the person posing. If someone wants to created animated versions and prove me wrong, by all means go ahead, but personally I don't think that adding animation to the endings is necessarily an improvement in and of itself.
 
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My point is, lets stick closely to the source material for the first version of this. If we're copying sound fx, music and graphics with only slight enhancements then the UI is following that philosophy.
Once we've created something close to the source material, we can certainly deviate and do new and cooler things.

"deviate and do new and cooler things" ... I hope that this refers to a different project not MK1 HD ... right?
 
Jiggeh has put it very well, and I agree with the majority of his post.

To address some other responses, I'm not blindly driven by nostalgia, and I'm not "limiting the potential of the project" because I am not in charge here. I voice my opinions the same as everyone else, and if those opinions have any impact, it's because enough people agree with them. If someone has an issue with the direction then don't single me out, take it up with every likeminded person here.

As Jiggeh has said, at this point persistence for a different version of the game may actually affect progress negatively. I think first and foremost the project should be finished with the intention it began with, I don't believe opening doors to a re-invented MK1 is a good idea while this is still being worked on. It's not my intention to stop anyone contributing anything, but it'd be far more beneficial if they were contributing works that fit the current direction, instead of ones that fit a re-invented MK1.

And really, I still can't see the point of having what is IMO an unnecessary alternate mode, that caters to people who don't find this one exciting enough. Especially since it's far from completion, so how can anyone already know what the end result will be like and whether they even need an alt mode?

I don't understand why some take issue with my simple preferences of 1) having MK1 HD actually look like MK1, as all work reflects already, and 2) having a definitive version of it with just the work that's been selected by the majority. I don't know why this would sound unreasonable.

Anyway I will do my best to not encourage this kind of discussion myself anymore, I've said more than enough on this topic too many times. Figure it out amongst yourselves.
 
We choose our road and I think it's ok. When the game is complete we can release some kind of "DLC", with original sounds, changed UI etc.

Then if released opensource a whole new slew of people will learn about mugen. Look at MK Project 4.1... 1000+ projects were made based off of that.
I'm not proud of this 1000+ MKP clones, most of them are (with all the respect) garbage, just a pile of bugs with palette and special moves swaps. This is why people don't take serious any MK MUGEN projects
I must say there are a few interesting MK MUGEN projects on the way and none of them are MKP clones.

This is one of the reassons for keep it closed source, another one (and more important) is for keep some easter eggs/secrets safe.
 
We choose our road and I think it's ok. When the game is complete we can release some kind of "DLC", with original sounds, changed UI etc.


I'm not proud of this 1000+ MKP clones, most of them are (with all the respect) garbage, just a pile of bugs with palette and special moves swaps. This is why people don't take serious any MK MUGEN projects
I must say there are a few interesting MK MUGEN projects on the way and none of them are MKP clones.

This is one of the reasons for keep it closed source, another one (and more important) is for keep some easter eggs/secrets safe.

You right I have seen many mugen projects I think few of them are good.
The idea for 2.5D Mugen MK1 is great.
And I also like that nothing will be changed just the original.
I like this project I want to help you whatever. Let us make something good which all to enjoy;)
 
We choose our road and I think it's ok. When the game is complete we can release some kind of "DLC", with original sounds, changed UI etc.

I'm going to go with this. I don't want to push anything without interloko's complete approval since he is tasked with actually "making" the game. Something like DLC isn't bad, that way everyone should be satisfied. Closed source is also definitely the best choice.

Unless people would prefer the alternate mode, then you guys should prolly stick with the original ripped sfx, voice overs, etc. for this edition of the game, just to keep this version agreeable to purists.

I still disagree with the notion that making new things would impede the progress of the current project, since no one who is making assets for the current version would be forced to work on new stuff. But I digress.

Thinking about DLC, I had a couple stage ideas for folks to chew on. I was thinking the stages wouldn't conflict with the the actual MK1 story, but serve as an expansion, rather. For instance, here are some stage ideas:

Shrine to the Great Kung Lao
Krypt/Tombs - Basically a shrine to the souls of past Tournaments. Also could serve as Ermac's Lair :p
Lin Kuei Temple - Possible that Kuai Liang can be seen in background
Shirai Ryu Ruins - Post Quan Chi attack, naturally

I think the first two would work especially well, as they both are located on Shang's island. I like the idea of doing stuff with the idea of, "What else was going on during the Tournament?"

Getting back to the current version, isn't there only the courtyard left to complete, as far as stages go? I know there is alot of character work to be done, but it will be nice to say that the stages are basically locked down.

And Jarvis, can you throw up one of your revised UI screens?
 
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We choose our road and I think it's ok. When the game is complete we can release some kind of "DLC", with original sounds, changed UI etc.


I'm not proud of this 1000+ MKP clones, most of them are (with all the respect) garbage, just a pile of bugs with palette and special moves swaps. This is why people don't take serious any MK MUGEN projects
I must say there are a few interesting MK MUGEN projects on the way and none of them are MKP clones.

This is one of the reassons for keep it closed source, another one (and more important) is for keep some easter eggs/secrets safe.

I would agree with this thinking, there are deff pros and cons to be weighed for sure. I understand about the floods of MKP clones, but when regular ppl get to make stuff, that is inevitable. It also spawned this entire community. Over the past few years, I have seen what happens to games released moleboxed. There is no new followers or discussions or activity. I feel most ppl in the community EDIT mugen, they dont PLAY mugen. I hate to say it but, I for one would not be very interested in an MK1 Remake if thats all there was to it. closed with no way to edit.
 
It was my understanding that this game is to be Mortal Kombat 1 with UPDATED and polished graphics, sound, and music... NOT RE-VISIONED graphics, music, stages, etc.

In other words, this is to be what SSF2 HD Remix was to the original SSF2.
 
Originally Posted by MUGENKombat
I feel most ppl in the community EDIT mugen, they dont PLAY mugen. I hate to say it but, I for one would not be very interested in an MK1 Remake if thats all there was to it. closed with no way to edit.

I think this sums up the situation very nicely. Though we may disagree about a thing or two, I think everyone on the team can agree that we are making a game TO BE PLAYED, not to be edited. If your interest is in editing, why would you need anything besides MKP anyway?

Now, if you don't like playing the original MK then you probably won't get much enjoyment out of this project either. From what I can tell, the goal is to make a game as indiscernible from the original as possible.
 
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I'm sorry but I think it's kind of silly to assert that the goal is to make it as indiscernible from the original as possible. A game that is indiscernable from the original would just be the original in a well made emulator or preferably on the original arcade cabinet.

Especially considering no matter what there's going to be differences due to it being composed of completely different assets that resemble the originals and it's in an entirely different engine with entirely different code that's merely inspired but not directly lifted off the original source code. Just the HD graphics and new artwork alone is enough to make it discernible that it's a brand new edition much less the new gameplay that will likely result from how relatively new everything is in it.

Also, it'd probably help to just consider MUGEN just as the engine that this runs on rather than a means to itself. Just like many games run on the UDK\UE3 but aren't as edited or editable as Unreal Tournament 3... this includes MK9... MK9 runs on the UE3 but isn't as editable as UT3... and people edit UE3 just as much if not more than MUGEN is edited.

Although typically being able to edit stuff has been a benefit of games on the PC and having it editable would mean one could put stuff they wanted in there that the original team didn't want to do. On the other hand I wouldn't like to see the assets ripped and put into other sub-par projects.
 
I'm sorry but I think it's kind of silly to assert that the goal is to make it as indiscernible from the original as possible. A game that is indiscernable from the original would just be the original in a well made emulator or preferably on the original arcade cabinet.

Especially considering no matter what there's going to be differences due to it being composed of completely different assets that resemble the originals and it's in an entirely different engine with entirely different code that's merely inspired but not directly lifted off the original source code. Just the HD graphics and new artwork alone is enough to make it discernible that it's a brand new edition much less the new gameplay that will likely result from how relatively new everything is in it.

Perhaps I was exaggerating the main goal slightly, but the goal is for the game to feel as similar to the original in all possible aspects, yes?

My point was that if one doesn't like playing the original game, that person probably won't like playing this one either as there will be as few differences as possible. Yes, new artwork, coding, etc but these things are being created and revised repeatedly to resemble the original as much as possible.

Your comparison of Mugen to Unreal Engine is a very good one. This isn't a Mugen project and likely won't advertise itself as such, apart from a mention in the credits, perhaps.
 
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@ TerryMasters, I'm not sure that's true. We can't expect the artists to have a "constant flow" of anything, since it's all volunteer-based.

Also, everything discussed has been directly related to the MK1 HD project. I would actually say that this thread is a shining example on-topicness. :)

I'm posting way too much. I didn't know I had this many opinions about anything. :D
 
@ TerryMasters, I'm not sure that's true. We can't expect the artists to have a "constant flow" of anything, since it's all volunteer-based.

Also, everything discussed has been directly related to the MK1 HD project. I would actually say that this thread is a shining example on-topicness. :)

I'm just referring to the amount of discussions we're having of issues we already covered long ago. I guess I can't complain though. But that in combination with the new guys who showed up to talk about how Scorpion should have this sick new move or a funny hat makes it hard not to vomit in my own mouth when I acknowledge the insurmountable talent we have working on this thing.
 
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