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Thread: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

  1. #2521
    Tarkatan Warrior DjangoJustin's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Jarvis, I've already relegated my ideas to the possibility of another project. I still disagree with the design philosophy of making an essentially non-pixelated version of MK1, but will leave that at the door because I know I'm in the minority. This is a fundamental difference of opinion, so it may show it's head again before the project is complete.

    Ever since UMK3, I've been of the opinion that MK has never come close to reaching it's potential. I feel that Ed Boon chose an entirely different route since becoming Creative Director and hasn't looked back since. I loved Vincent Proce's unused work and felt that he was much closer to "getting" what MK always was to me. Not spot on, but close.

    I want to see this unexplored avenue much more than I want to re-play essentially the same MK1 I reluctantly bought with the Arcade Kollection. It broke my heart when they cancelled the "HD" part of that project, as the screen shots showed that they were onto to something special. Also, I thought all of the UI for that was and is fantastic, and I don't think that it "stripped" any of the MK style away. Quite the opposite.

    I've talked enough about this, I think. I do however ask that you guys consider including something to freshen up this game's experience. I think that the above suggestion I made is something to think about.

    @prstyles27, yeah. I feel ya, man.

    @Bleed and Demonseed, I'm psyched to see what you guys will come up with!

    Quote Originally Posted by jarvis653 View Post
    Justin, I want to talk about the topic you brought up on UI. Calactyte has already made many of the points that I would've made myself, so I'll keep this brief.

    Basically, the graphics in the original are cheesy and clearly a product of the 90s, but whether you like it or not, that is what makes the style of MK1. Updating it they way you're talking about would be stripping it of that style, and then it wouldn't really be MK1 anymore would it?

    With my work I basically walk a line between making everything look like the original and making it look HD quality, and that can be a difficult thing to do. If I wanted to, I absolutely could make something very modern, and I can tell you it would've been be far easier than the way I did it. Calling it a glorified upscale is missing the point.

    I agree however that those previous versions of the UI did indeed have problems, issues of blurriness among other things, that is why I remade them again for better quality and actually even closer to the original. What I've got now I consider the final product, and I don't think you'll be disappointed either.

    I may speak more on this when I get home.
    Last edited by DjangoJustin; 12-20-2011 at 10:58 PM.

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    @ DEMONSEED: I'm doing the same thing, I have the edge loops in place and I'm going up in subdivision one level at a time. Trying to capture a likeness before moving to the next one.

    I spend a lot of time on level 1 and 2 usually.

  3. #2523
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    This project should stick to the original. Then if released opensource a whole new slew of people will learn about mugen. Look at MK Project 4.1... 1000+ projects were made based off of that. If MKHD sticks to the original and "Nails It" your fans can create Ultimate MK1HD and anything else they want, ermac etc. If opensourced - upgrades, addons, and replayabilty are not an issue at all.

    MK MUGEN fans and MK fans are uniting over this project. An important goal would be to create a community of ppl after the games release, to play, edit, and support future MKHD projects. In my mind a fanbase and replayabilty really comes down to whether or not the game is open or closed.
    Last edited by MUGENKombat; 12-21-2011 at 12:13 AM.

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    Tarkatan Warrior DjangoJustin's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Can't say I agree too much with this. ^ Sorry.

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Justin, what you essentially have in mind is an alternate version of MK 2011 that's based on MK1. I loved Vincent's designs, and I wouldn't be opposed to such a re-imagining in the slightest. But not for this project, and I can't stress that enough. This project is an ode to the original arcade game, in all its old school glory. While you may not be excited about this, there is definitely enough of a fanbase who is. This is the direction we've chosen in all aspects of the game, and IMO the end result will be a way to relive the original experience of playing it when it was first released.

    I don't have such a militant attitude towards keeping it a non-pixelated version of MK either, even though it may appear that way. I just feel there should be a good balance between recreating assets so up to today's standards, but resembling the original game. As for the UI in MKAKHD, there's a lot I like about it but there's also things I don't, I have chosen a simpler approach that is less modernized and I don't have any regrets about that. Like I said, the screens you saw previously weren't the final versions anyway, which I wasn't satisfied with either, so I've amended their problems and I believe I've struck a good balance between the original and the HD remake.

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    Tarkatan Warrior DjangoJustin's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Jarvis, what I had in mind was an alternate version of MK1. MK 2011 is almost a whole other franchise.

    Like I said, I've talked about that enough. I've revised my initial thinking and think that THIS game needs a single, perhaps hidden alternative mode offering alternate versions of the stages and music and whatever else the artist's feel inspired to include. No gameplay is affected and the entire classic experience is intact. This is the best way to honor the original game while also showcasing some of the Kommunity's artistic visions of MK. There really is no need to have two separate games with the same essential gameplay.

    Like I proposed, this whole mode can be just an alternate Battleplan. If both were included in the same package this would be a definitive MK1 experiance, offering both an entirely classic experiance and a bit of freshness all in HD.

    Quote Originally Posted by jarvis653 View Post
    Justin, what you essentially have in mind is an alternate version of MK 2011 that's based on MK1. I loved Vincent's designs, and I wouldn't be opposed to such a re-imagining in the slightest. But not for this project, and I can't stress that enough. This project is an ode to the original arcade game, in all its old school glory. While you may not be excited about this, there is definitely enough of a fanbase who is. This is the direction we've chosen in all aspects of the game, and IMO the end result will be a way to relive the original experience of playing it when it was first released.

    I don't have such a militant attitude towards keeping it a non-pixelated version of MK either, even though it may appear that way. I just feel there should be a good balance between recreating assets so up to today's standards, but resembling the original game. As for the UI in MKAKHD, there's a lot I like about it but there's also things I don't, I have chosen a simpler approach that is less modernized and I don't have any regrets about that. Like I said, the screens you saw previously weren't the final versions anyway, which I wasn't satisfied with either, so I've amended their problems and I believe I've struck a good balance between the original and the HD remake.

  7. #2527
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Quote Originally Posted by jarvis653 View Post
    Justin, what you essentially have in mind is an alternate version of MK 2011 that's based on MK1. I loved Vincent's designs, and I wouldn't be opposed to such a re-imagining in the slightest. But not for this project, and I can't stress that enough. This project is an ode to the original arcade game, in all its old school glory. While you may not be excited about this, there is definitely enough of a fanbase who is. This is the direction we've chosen in all aspects of the game, and IMO the end result will be a way to relive the original experience of playing it when it was first released.

    I don't have such a militant attitude towards keeping it a non-pixelated version of MK either, even though it may appear that way. I just feel there should be a good balance between recreating assets so up to today's standards, but resembling the original game. As for the UI in MKAKHD, there's a lot I like about it but there's also things I don't, I have chosen a simpler approach that is less modernized and I don't have any regrets about that. Like I said, the screens you saw previously weren't the final versions anyway, which I wasn't satisfied with either, so I've amended their problems and I believe I've struck a good balance between the original and the HD remake.

    After a successful release of this project, why don't the developers update the stages and characters, add more blood, include Justin's soundtracks and name it Mortal Kombat: Bigger, Better, Louder, Meaner! Yes, with the exclamation mark. This won't be a remake, just an upgrade with the community's ideas based off the original, so then we have a choice of old school arcade Mortal Kombat and a bloodier alternative of the old school arcade Mortal Kombat, special thanks to the community of TRMK.

    Edit- Justin, MK Bigger Better Louder Meaner would be a great advantage. Just an idea, though. I DO support the Remix mode. If an options menu is to be added to the title screen, might as well have a "classic" and "remix" mode in there.

  8. #2528
    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Slaughter View Post
    Jarvis, what I had in mind was an alternate version of MK1. MK 2011 is almost a whole other franchise.

    Like I said, I've talked about that enough. I've revised my initial thinking and think that THIS game needs a single, perhaps hidden alternative mode offering alternate versions of the stages and music and whatever else the artist's feel inspired to include. No gameplay is affected and the entire classic experience is intact. This is the best way to honor the original game while also showcasing some of the Kommunity's artistic visions of MK. There really is no need to have two separate games with the same essential gameplay.

    Like I proposed, this whole mode can be just an alternate Battleplan. If both were included in the same package this would be a definitive MK1 experiance, offering both an entirely classic experiance and a bit of freshness all in HD.
    Doing what you propose still requires another version of the game, your idea is to just keep it within the same game instead of splitting them. I also don't see much point to it, considering that the stages are something that is very difficult to stay true to the original, and will be substantially different no matter what. They are also supposed to match the character sprites, so the versions that we'll have will be the best we can do with everyone who is involved, no matter how different or how similar to the original they are.

    The way I see it, we should have a definitive version of the game and so options like different stages, music or whatever else contradict that and imply that we couldn't decide on what we wanted. I think it's important that we do decide on what we want and stick to it, and be proud of the end result in every way.

    Having said all that, I believe there may be some surprises in store for this game, but for the most part it will be just like the original in native HD quality. And that should really be enough to get excited about, even if you're not at this stage, I think you'll come around when you actually get your hands on it.
    Last edited by jarvis653; 12-21-2011 at 02:24 AM.

  9. #2529
    Tarkatan Warrior DjangoJustin's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    options like different stages, music or whatever else contradict that and imply that we couldn't decide on what we wanted.
    I'm sorry, Jarvis, but this is ridiculous. Especially considering it would be a BONUS option.

    Haha Perhaps MK:BBLM! is the way to go, Grid. I was just visualizing a single concise package that let's players play how they want, hopping back and forth if they choose.

    I guess I'll just leave it up to the Kommunity. What do ya say guys? MK:BBLM! or Alternate Mode?

    CHOOSE YOUR DESTINY!



    Quote Originally Posted by The Grid View Post
    After a successful release of this project, why don't the developers update the stages and characters, add more blood, include Justin's soundtracks and name it Mortal Kombat: Bigger, Better, Louder, Meaner! Yes, with the exclamation mark. This won't be a remake, just an upgrade with the community's ideas based off the original, so then we have a choice of old school arcade Mortal Kombat and a bloodier alternative of the old school arcade Mortal Kombat, special thanks to the community of TRMK.

    Edit- Justin, MK Bigger Better Louder Meaner would be a great advantage. Just an idea, though. I DO support the Remix mode. If an options menu is to be added to the title screen, might as well have a "classic" and "remix" mode in there.
    Last edited by DjangoJustin; 12-21-2011 at 02:30 AM.

  10. #2530
    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    IMO it doesn't make sense contemplating an alternate version at this stage, since we still have such a massive amount of work to do for this version. And I do mean massive, progress is good but we still have a very long way to go. That's not even including bug testing.

    Perhaps once we're finished doing what we set out to do, and there is still demand for a modernized or hybrid version of MK1, we could do something like that if everyone was so inclined. Although, that would also take time away from continuing forward with an MK2 HD and so forth, if we chose to continue at all. But IMO we shouldn't concern ourselves with anything else until this is done, whether it's alternate versions or sequels, because it only takes focus away from the current project.

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    Tarkatan Warrior DjangoJustin's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    I agree, Jarvis.

    That is exactly why the alternate mode should be added to THIS game. There really is no logical reason not to since it doesn't affect gameplay.


    Quote Originally Posted by jarvis653 View Post
    IMO it doesn't make sense contemplating an alternate version at this stage, since we still have such a massive amount of work to do for this version. And I do mean massive, progress is good but we still have a very long way to go. That's not even including bug testing.

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Slaughter View Post
    I'm sorry, Jarvis, but this is ridiculous. Especially considering it would be a BONUS option.
    If it sounds ridiculous to you then maybe it's because I misinterpreted you, since there aren't any specific details of what you had in mind.

    Did you mean alternate versions of the same stages? As in not day/night alternates, but simply different interpretations? Because that doesn't make sense to me at all, it would require literally double the work for something that is neither expected not necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Slaughter View Post
    I agree, Jarvis.

    That is exactly why the alternate mode should be added to THIS game. There really is no logical reason not to since it doesn't affect gameplay.
    If there's no difference in gameplay then what alternate version? What is the point of doing the whole project all over again for a bonus feature?

    From what I understand, for some reason you want different stages, when I cannot see anything wrong with the ones that are being made, and which are being made to match with the sprites we have. Other than that you want different music, when there is not even one version of the tracks to judge yet and decide whether we need another set of it.

    Again, you're asking for double the work for a bonus feature. I don't see this as a reasonable thing to ask for especially since most people will be perfectly happy with the one, definitive version.

    I now feel I've said enough on this, and I'm simply supporting a direction that the majority have already agreed on and all are working towards.
    Last edited by jarvis653; 12-21-2011 at 03:12 AM.

  13. #2533
    Tarkatan Warrior Le@N's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    it would require literally double the work
    Not really double, if you change only graphic.

    I can't see anything wrong with the ones that are being made
    He just want diversity.

  14. #2534
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    You're hugely missing the point, Jarvis. The point isn't something new for the sake of something new. The point is to let ARTIST's contribute their visions of MK in a separate mode, offering something fresh for people who want it, and not affecting those who don't.

    I really don't see why you're mama-grizzlying this issue. It really doesn't affect you, only YOUR vision for what this game should be. There are others who wouldn't mind an alternate mode, and if artist's are willing to contribute where is the problem? This is the Kommunity's game, after all. Throw up a poll, and if the Kommunity says, "Nay" that's all there is to it. Either way, it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le@N View Post
    Not really double, if you change only graphic.


    He just want diversity.
    That's still double the graphics work. Like I said we still have so much to do, this isn't a job everyone can do full time - having diversity will only delay the project, and the time it takes to complete it could be potentially twice as long. I don't see diversity as a good enough reason for the project to take that much longer.

    This is also a response to your post above Justin. And I really have said as much as I want to on this, I'm not sure I like the way you are interpreting my opinion on it, and since it's up to the graphics artists if they want to do what you've proposed, then I encourage them to speak up.
    Last edited by jarvis653; 12-21-2011 at 03:31 AM.

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    That's still double the graphics work
    Work from whom, Jarvis? If someone wants to contribute, why would you want to stop them?

    The way I see it, you are limiting this project's potential.

    You're coming off as just pig-headed, sir.

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    I'll be happy at this point even if the extra I got was animated endings... looping animated gif style. Making them all animated like the bio screens. :P
    --Tetsu
    It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen. -- Alex Delarge, A Clockwork Orange

  18. #2538
    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Slaughter View Post
    Work from whom, Jarvis? If someone wants to contribute, why would you want to stop them?

    The way I see it, you are limiting this project's potential.

    You're coming off as just pig-headed, sir.
    I was assuming that it'd be work from the people who are already on this project, you never said otherwise. I am certainly not stopping anyone from contributing, even though it's my preference that we put only the best work into the project that the majority agrees on.
    Also, please keep this discussion respectful.

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    @ Smoke, is that not happening? wtf?

    since it's up to the graphics artists if they want to do what you've proposed, then I encourage them to speak up.
    I was assuming that it'd be work from the people who are already on this project, you never said otherwise. I am certainly not stopping anyone from contributing, even though it's
    my preference that we put only the best work into the project that the majority agrees on.

    Indeed. If there are any graphics artists that would like to contribute to the Alternate Mode, let us know. I'll speak up first and say I'll happily contribute.

    I would never demand that the current artists work on something they don't want to. And I agree that we should only include high-quality work.

    I want to add that I mean no offence with any of my remarks, Jarvis. We just have differing perspectives.
    Last edited by DjangoJustin; 12-21-2011 at 03:54 AM.

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    Tarkatan Warrior Le@N's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    The way I see it, you are limiting this project's potential.
    With obvious reason.

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