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Thread: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

  1. #2081
    Tarkatan Warrior Le@N's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Well, I think he mean they want to make only costumes from MK1. This costume wasn't included in MK1 anyways..

    is there any place I can see more of what didn't make it into the game?
    Check first link in my signature.
    Last edited by Le@N; 12-11-2011 at 11:31 PM.

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Mugenkombat:
    If I understand correctly then your point is - if changes are made to one thing, why shouldn't changes be made to the other? Well the reason is because each thing needs to be treated individually.

    When you're talking about extra anims in fatalities, I'm not sure whether you're talking about the amount of sprites or new movements entirely. If it's the latter, I wouldn't want to see that either. Just the amount of sprites that are required in HD to make the original movements believable, and if there's something about the original that conflicts with that, only then should it be updated/changed. A zoom effect is not something that was in any of the classics, and so it doesn't belong in this HD upgrade - it's important to remember that it is just an upgrade, not a re-imagining.

    About the characters, I don't think the comics should be a reference. For this to resemble the original MK1 as much as possible, the HD sprites should be entirely based on the original sprites and photos of the actors. The comics were a separate thing, and even if you prefer the costume designs in them, they weren't made for the game and so aren't the correct reference.

    As for Goro, I was under the impression that he was being based mostly on the in-game
    version. It certainly looks like it at least. But since obviously it was not an actor in costume, I think that along with the clay model and its sprites, the original artist sketch of how he was intended to look could also be a valid reference. There is a convincing similarity between the sketch and the model too.

    Although, I'm not so militant that I am totally against adding any small, extra details to the HD sprites that weren't in the original. After all, MK1 was so low-res, that so much more detail is expected in this HD version. If there are other details in the original sketches for the characters, and could be incorporated while still preserving the MK1 look, then with good judgement it could work. But it should not deviate from the original sprites in an obvious way. That's my take on it.

    Jiggeh:
    I can see why you would think the example of KI & SF3 would be relevant. However you are missing one crucial element - like I said, those games are old, they are low resolution and made for outdated TVs. They also have an illustrated style. For a realistic portrayal of characters, modern tech requires higher resolutions which require higher amounts of sprites to look natural. So both those examples are irrelevant IMO - this MK is in HD and is meant to represent digitized actors to the best of its ability, within the means of 3D modeling. If you are trying to convincingly portray real people, then both the graphics and the movement are just as important.

    The original MK was able to get away with a lot because of the tech at the time it was made, and the fact that it had never been done before gave it even more impact. Just as the quality of it would've been compared to others in its time, the quality of this remake will be compared to other games today. It's conditioning.

    Anyway that's probably the best way I can explain why the animations should look as natural as they can within the limitations we have. Which simply means we need a lot of sprites.
    Last edited by jarvis653; 12-12-2011 at 12:32 AM.

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    Tarkatan Warrior Le@N's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    We understand your point - you want only new graphic/sound.

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Quote Originally Posted by Le@N View Post
    We understand your point - you want only new graphic/sound.
    I was just replying to a post and offering my opinions. Why do I get the impression you have something against me?

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    My point is its still MK1 kano. Just not MK1 arcade.

    Also, goro has already been based off of Tobais comic art. adding horns seals the deal. they werent original sprites. The point is its all resonal preference. And all opinions. Im expressing mine because thats my opinion. Also as said not just the comics are the basis for this, as Rich Divisio wore it as well. a good argument against it would be that in MKII kano was locked up still wearing the brown stuff.

    Jarvis YES its an upgrade not reimagining EXACTLY. So upgrade. My argument is its not reimagining if you borrow small things from concept art ("comics") or like bleed did, use the behind the sceens filming photos for his models. people debated whether or not the ninjas should have the quilted pattern or not. like bleed says you cant please everyone all the time. thing is, i wont be disappointed with a brown sash. this was a opportunity for some MK1 lore and discussion concerning char development. Its all char study IMO. but again, MY point is they are BOTH MK1 Kano. One is a update/conceptual and one was in game. It kool to stick with MK1 arcade "in game" kano. but that doesnt make the other kano MKT or not MK1.

    The Mk1 and MKII comics by Tobias are just as credible as that pic that was posted from his twitter, I mean he imagined all this shit in the 1st place. The game is a represntation of HIS vision. I guess what im hearing from you all is its okay to do it with goro, because he is a beast and a clay puppet, well that sounds silly to me. already the amount of detail to the ninjas makes them look diff than arcade mk1. they look very MKII like now. just an opinion.
    Last edited by MUGENKombat; 12-12-2011 at 12:48 AM.

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    Tarkatan Warrior Le@N's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    That's what I talked about. Need to change topic's name..

    Why do I get the impression you have something against me
    I just don't like those who talk much about nothing. xD
    Last edited by Le@N; 12-12-2011 at 12:45 AM.

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    I think every one involved working on the project agrees that we're sticking to remaking MK1 as closely as possible, with some necessary updates that are purely aesthetic. All the work posted reflects that goal. It sounds like you've misinterpreted the "Remix" title.

    Also Mugenkombat, it depends on whether comics is considered as concept art. The Goro illustration was an actual concept sketch for the game. I see the comics as being entirely separate from the game. For Kano, a decision would've been made to use the costume he is wearing in-game rather than the one you see in the photo and comics. We don't know what the basis for that was, but we can see that's the one they chose and IMO we should respect that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le@N View Post
    That's what I talked about. Need to change topic's name..

    I just don't like those who talk much about nothing. xD
    We don't need to change the title, you just need to change your interpretation. You could interpret a remake title the same way as you are for this one.

    And what do you talk about other than making obnoxious remarks about my posts? This is all discussion that has the potential to benefit the game. Through discussion many people can make many valid points, opposing or not, that can prove useful.
    Last edited by jarvis653; 12-12-2011 at 01:00 AM.

  8. #2088
    Tarkatan Warrior Le@N's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    This is all discussion that has the potential to benefit the game.
    There's more flood and offtopic, than really useful posts.)

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Quote Originally Posted by jarvis653 View Post
    Also Mugenkombat, it depends on whether comics is considered as concept art. The Goro illustration was an actual concept sketch for the game. I see the comics as being entirely separate from the game. For Kano, a decision would've been made to use the costume he is wearing in-game rather than the one you see in the photo and comics. We don't know what the basis for that was, but we can see that's the one they chose and IMO we should respect that.
    Well being drawn by John Tobias means the comics are pretty official although the style and tone of the art is quite different than the game. It's actually much like his concept drawings although I think should be considered a separate entity. Also you might want to consider he always drew stuff like that but then they always went for a more realistic look in the game with the digitized graphics during his tenure.

    Also Bleed already said he wants to stick to the brown utility belt as seen in the game.
    --Tetsu
    It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen. -- Alex Delarge, A Clockwork Orange

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Quote Originally Posted by Le@N View Post
    There's more flood and offtopic, than really useful posts.)
    Who are you to decide which posts are useful and which aren't? What an arrogant thing to say. There's no flood, it's all relevant to this project. Clearly you have singled me out on this.

  11. #2091
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    I would say the name HD Remix was taken from Street Fighter without any actual thought. MK1 HD Remake would be better suited for a title. Im not disrespecting Ranton becuase I think the Kano with silver and red sash is still MK1, and better looking than the in game becuase I am a Tobias fanboy, everyone knows that. As far as the 2 comics go. the fans have considered those cannon for years, they are highly respected in MK lore. Im not so sure easily dismissing them is a smart move becuase some of you think it = not realistic / cartoony. Hell, even midway must have felt it important to update the kano costume to match the comics for live events.

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    Black Dragon Recruit smoke.tetsu's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Well even back then the comics and games where pretty separate I mean it's not like John Tobias drew the concept art and then comics and then they scrapped the digitized look and started hand drawing all the characters then and there. Like I said before I had a bunch of t-shirts but even as an early teen I recognized how different it looked since it was drawn and not live actors as in the game. Since it's from the designer of the game some things overlap but some things are obviously different.

    It's up to them which elements they want to put in and it's perfectly OK to pick and choose... and apparently the choice is to go mostly with the in-game's style than anything.
    --Tetsu
    It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen. -- Alex Delarge, A Clockwork Orange

  13. #2093
    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Quote Originally Posted by MUGENKombat View Post
    I would say the name HD Remix was taken from Street Fighter without any actual thought. MK1 HD Remake would be better suited for a title. Im not disrespecting Ranton becuase I think the Kano with silver and red sash is still MK1, and better looking than the in game becuase I am a Tobias fanboy, everyone knows that. As far as the 2 comics go. the fans have considered those cannon for years, they are highly respected in MK lore. Im not so sure easily dismissing them is a smart move becuase some of you think it = not realistic / cartoony. Hell, even midway must have felt it important to update the kano costume to match the comics for live events.
    Well actually taking the Remix title from SF makes sense since SSF2HD Remix (at least one version of it) is also just a graphics update. As far as what elements of costumes will or won't be used for this game, ultimately that is for the character creators like Bleed and Gojira to decide. There is a degree of artistic interpretation in this project, we are simply offering our opinions, they don't have to agree with them or make use of them. Unless it's something to do with the function of the game that is.

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    I can chain 3 tiger knees and do extra hits in air for juggles on SSF2THDR. It has changed in some versions as well.

    Another question. It was revealed elsewhere that Ranton's Raiden was for his own 3D project, but again it has appeared, now here. Has something changed? Will this Raiden make it into MK HD Remix? Also, its been a very long time since Warrior Shrine progress has been shown, im anxious for that!!

    If the idea of the project is to faithfully recreate MK1 in HD, I think you should drop Remix from the title. and just call it "Mortal Kombat HD" Besides HD Remix is borrowed from the SF series, and who really wants that.

    Another topic i hear brought up is that this thread needs its own forum, well mk mugen has many many forums. MK Mugen needs another forum like i need another hole in the head. Besides I like TRMK, Ive been visiting this place for years since it was hotweird.com - so im gratefull for that. what made you guys come here anyway?

    P.S. Jade and Smoke were undiscovered warriors from MK1 :P
    Last edited by MUGENKombat; 12-12-2011 at 01:57 AM.

  15. #2095
    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Quote Originally Posted by MUGENKombat View Post
    I can chain 4 tiger knees and do 1 hit extra in air for juggles on SSF2THDR. It has changed.
    I know they made their own "balancing" corrections to it, but can we agree that the graphics (which is what we're discussing) are accurate to the original? Anyway, something else I forgot to reply to:

    Quote Originally Posted by MUGENKombat View Post
    The Mk1 and MKII comics by Tobias are just as credible as that pic that was posted from his twitter, I mean he imagined all this shit in the 1st place. The game is a represntation of HIS vision. I guess what im hearing from you all is its okay to do it with goro, because he is a beast and a clay puppet, well that sounds silly to me. already the amount of detail to the ninjas makes them look diff than arcade mk1. they look very MKII like now. just an opinion.
    The way they were recorded in MK1 simply didn't bring out the subtle texture of the costumes actually used. So how they look now is how they actually looked when worn on the actors. And it's not that Goro is a clay puppet that extra details from a different source have more validity, it's that the sketch was from concept art for the game rather than from the comics. That is my opinion on it, wrong or right. The game was also not only a product Tobias' vision but the product of all involved on the game, and decisions would've been made between them.

    Anyway, I think I've said about all I've wanted to say on recent topics that have come up, so I'm going to give discussion a break for a while and quietly work on the project instead.

    One more thing:

    Quote Originally Posted by MUGENKombat View Post
    If the idea of the project is to faithfully recreate MK1 in HD, I think you should drop Remix from the title. and just call it "Mortal Kombat HD" Besides HD Remix is borrowed from the SF series, and who really wants that.

    Another topic i hear brought up is that this thread needs its own forum, well mk mugen has many many forums. MK Mugen needs another forum like i need another hole in the head. Besides I like TRMK, Ive been visiting this place for years since it was hotweird.com - so im gratefull for that. what made you guys come here anyway?
    I don't know whether this place was actually chosen for the project, or something that just came together here. I offered to make a specific forum for this project and this one only, which would provide some benefits IMO, but everyone prefers to do it here and I can respect that. I think later down the line perhaps one will be made, for different purposes though.

    As for the title, for now I think this is just fine. Everyone working on it knows what they're doing so it doesn't matter what other people interpret it as. I don't know what the final name could be, but it needs to be something that implies it is MK1 in HD and fan-made. In that case "Mortal Kombat HD Remix" fits quite well actually. We shouldn't have any name that could confuse people with an official product, I feel that could bring some trouble for us.
    Last edited by jarvis653; 12-12-2011 at 02:07 AM.

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    I doubt highly there will be trouble for you. there are tons of mk mugens, and this one is using the least amount of official stuff. its almost completely remade. besides Boon, Tobias, and Vogel have already seen it. As for the goof-asses you have coming in talking about $ - well thats where you need a MOD in the forum to clean that shit up. And the real benefit of a dedicated forum, for me to argue your point a little bit. Everyone will know its fan made. Its MUGEN LOL, and its not like ppl will find it at walmart. HAHA.

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Quote Originally Posted by MUGENKombat View Post
    I doubt highly there will be trouble for you. there are tons of mk mugens, and this one is using the least amount of official stuff. its almost completely remade. besides Boon, Tobias, and Vogel have already seen it. As for the goof-asses you have coming in talking about $ - well thats where you need a MOD in the forum to clean that shit up. And the real benefit of a dedicated forum, for me to argue your point a little bit. Everyone will know its fan made. Its MUGEN LOL, and its not like ppl will find it at walmart. HAHA.
    You could be right, but it is still a concern of mine to not imply a strictly fan-made game in the title. But if no one else feels that way I suppose "Mortal Kombat HD" would be perfect. It's something that will probably be voted on later, but at this early stage I think we can leave it as it is.

    Also Boon, Tobias and Vogel have seen it? How the hell did I miss that?

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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    who are you to decide which posts are useful and which aren't?
    I have right to post my opinion and used it.. Know your problem, Jarvis. You often speak like leader of project.)

    what made you guys come here anyway?
    They wanted glory and kind critique, indeed.
    Last edited by Le@N; 12-12-2011 at 02:31 AM.

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    Kombatant DEMONSEED's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Quote Originally Posted by jarvis653 View Post
    Also Boon, Tobias and Vogel have seen it? How the hell did I miss that?
    hah, yepp... from Tobias and also Vogel's twitter. Awesome.

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    Shaolin Monk jarvis653's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

    Le@N - Critique? I haven't seen you post any critique on anyone's work. A lot of the posts I have seen from you are obnoxious remarks about what I've written, not even sharing opinions respectfully as other people do. Your general view of discussion is that it's "flood" (which I see you've edited out now). If I come across as trying to be the "leader" that couldn't be further from the truth, I am just passionate and express my thoughts - I'm not saying anyone must agree with them. If all you want to do is get a reaction out of me, then I won't entertain you with one. I'd rather keep harmony in the project than arguing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEMONSEED View Post
    hah, yepp... from Tobias and also Vogel's twitter. Awesome.
    Amazing
    Could you please post a link? Would love to see what they had to say.
    Last edited by jarvis653; 12-12-2011 at 02:46 AM.

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