Animal Rights

[back,back,back,low punch]

I think that's what you meant to say.

No.
Bees and ants have very high organizational skills that rival even our own.
So much so with ants that confusion is not a factor unless added by chemical means.

Progressive?
No.
But if it aint broke, don't fix it.

[AMES32]

You In general not as a direct insult to you. I Never said your beliefs were wrong. I don't believe that your level of intellect should determin your worthyness. that's like saying mentally handycapped people shouldn't have jobs because they're not as smart as you or I. but go ahead if you want.

[Zatch.]

You In general not as a direct insult to you. never said your beliefs were wrong. I don't believe that your level of intellect should determin your worthyness. that's like saying mentally handycapped people shouldn't have jobs because they're not as smart as you or I. but go ahead if you want.

The handicapped are restricted from getting the jobs of normal beings because of their limitations; they're clearly incapable of performing SOME task, provided the handicap is of that caliber. Depending on the caliber, they're either fine with performing the job of anyone else with negligible setback or concern, or they require constant hospitality or scrutiny. Intellect doesn't really determine your worth in today's society, it's how you use it; the ingenuity holds worth.

[Freyith]

Actually, I've really yet to see any average handicapped individual aside from cases of total or near-total paraplegia (ALS, severe Cerebral Palsy, etc) unable to perform most average jobs. They are normal beings; they just have to work around greater disadvantages than a non-handicapped person. There have been plenty at most, if not all of the workplaces I've been employed in. I've even seen severely wounded soldiers returning from the front who do rally-driving as a hobby despite missing one or more limbs. As for the mentally-handicapped, tons of programs exist that actively employ and compensate them for their labor. In most cases, they work substantially harder and more diligently than completely able-bodied, able-minded people I see. Why? They want to prove themselves as capable and useful to society. They want to take part.

[Zatch.]

My apologies for not emphasizing the caliber of mental setbacks playing an acute role in what jobs the mentally handicapped are allotted, that was the intended gist of my objection. D:

[Love Cowboy]

Animals don't have rights in the same sense that sentient human beings do. Even the very concept of natural rights is one we've devised for ourselves due to our higher-order intelligence. That said, we convey and bestow many of those same expectations and promises to others, most notably our animal companions. We recognize that they, being part of the natural order, deserve to be free of undue pain, hardship, or suffering. We give them positive rights through our own understanding of the human experience.

But with that in mind, there are stark differences. I don't let my cat roam completely free as she wants because I know she's generally too much of a dunce to avoid being run over by a speeding car or getting mauled by a raccoon. You wouldn't let your dog exercise complete freedom and liberty because, in general, they don't have the same capacity for caring for themselves because they've been raised as a domesticated pet. But we still afford both our love, kindness, generosity and respect.

Wow, I'm agreeing with Freyith again. This is pretty much spot-on. I don't think animals have "rights" in the way that we humans have defined that term for ourselves. I think it would me more accurate to categorize what we call "animal rights" as more of an obligation of our own species to protect our animal brethren.

Sentience. Most animals are simply not cognizant to the degree we are. Regardless of brain size, only humans, chimpanzees, dauphins, and crows demonstrate the higher intellectual faculties required pave a path of progress. Some dinosaurs had two brains, one inside their cranium the other at the base of their spine/beginning of their tail. They were not very bright.

Kind of silly to be arguing with the banned guy since he can't respond but I almost have to ask if he's saying that the other animals he mentioned are sentient?

The conscious mind does not grant the immediate right to free life.
So why does its absence take that right away?

Where we differ is that I believe that the conscious mind DOES grant the right to free life. Why do you think it doesn't? You're not confusing the RIGHT to free life with the existence of it, are you?

[back,back,back,low punch]

Where we differ is that I believe that the conscious mind DOES grant the right to free life. Why do you think it doesn't? You're not confusing the RIGHT to free life with the existence of it, are you?

This thread is about worldwide animal rights, not just 'Merican animal rights.
So my post was about worldwide right to free life.
Just because you can think doesn't mean people think you should live.



You like that last sentence?
I put a spin on that ish

[FlawlessVictor]

That still doesn't take away from the fact that animal rights is a man-made concept, born from sympathy to animals. Wild animals do not go out of their way to protect or aid other species unless they provide some benefit to them. Invasive species, whether induced by humans or natural phenomena, are not cognizant of the impact they make on other animals and vegetation. Their only concern is the preservation of themselves and their species.

[Love Cowboy]

This thread is about worldwide animal rights, not just 'Merican animal rights.
So my post was about worldwide right to free life.
Just because you can think doesn't mean people think you should live.
You like that last sentence?
I put a spin on that ish

What the hell about my post suggests I'm just talking about the US? Just because a government prevents you from exercising your rights doesn't mean you don't have them. I stand by my statement.

[back,back,back,low punch]

I think animal murderers should be given much harsher sentences. I don't mean hunters, I mean the sick freaks that skin cats, mutilate dogs & do other unspeakable things to other animals.


If they're sick enough to something like that, its only a matter of time before that shit snags a human life. Lock 'em up now

[AMES32]

You In general not as a direct insult to you. I Never said your beliefs were wrong. I don't believe that your level of intellect should determin your worthyness. that's like saying mentally handycapped people shouldn't have jobs because they're not as smart as you or I. but go ahead if you want.

I couldn't have said that any better.

[back,back,back,low punch]

Did you seriously just give yourself a high five (handjob) over the internet?

[AMES32]

Did you seriously just give yourself a high five (handjob) over the internet?

Hahaha.. i haven't read my old posts. So yeah I guess you could say that.

[Love Cowboy]

I couldn't have said that any better.

This statement is false. You could have spelled "worthiness" and "handicapped" correctly.

[Critical-Limit]

Their only concern is the preservation of themselves and their species.

Not all species are like that. Plenty of animals I believe that are capable of "love" in the sense they help eachother out.



I mean are you gonna argue that dog just felt like moving the other dog? If you need a cross species example. or That it's preserving it's own species so it helped it?




Now understand I know this is a controlled environment, but if they were really out for their own survival under any circumstance what benefit would say a gorilla in the jungle gets from raising a rabbit?

I agree that in HARSH conditions animals will think only of survival. If a tiger is starving he probably aint gonna raise pigs LOL.

But I think you are forgetting the capability of humans when we reach extreme Famine.

Cannibalism has been occasionally practiced as a last resort by people suffering from famine, including in modern times. A famous example is the ill-fated Westward expedition of the Donner Party, and more recently the crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571, after which some survivors ate the bodies of dead passengers. Also, some mentally ill people obsess about eating others and actually do so, such as Jeffrey Dahmer and Albert Fish. There is resistance to formally labeling cannibalism as a mental disorder.[16]

I agree with the REST of your post. But that one sentence I don't believe is dead on 100% true. It's highly likely most animals think like that in their own dangerous and survival habitat. But I think they are also capable of caring outside of their own species, the chance for it is just rare.

Just like in a burning building. not all humans go out of their way to help people get out. Some people will push other people out of the way. In normal conditions this person wouldn't PUSH people. But survival mode kicked in and even HUMANS only concern can randomly become self perservation.

[FlawlessVictor]

^ I'll take back what I said on the grounds that is too generalized. It's more accurate to say it's their primary concern.

Still, there are some species that should not be together without constant supervision. This is especially true with animals that have predator-prey relationship. A cat that is given plenty of food daily doesn't have any real need for hunting, but may kill a bird if it somehow triggers its primal instincts. Some dogs have attacked pet pigs that they known for years.

[Critical-Limit]

^ I'll take back what I said on the grounds that is too generalized. It's more accurate to say it's their primary concern.

Still, there are some species that should not be together without constant supervision. This is especially true with animals that have predator-prey relationship. A cat that is given plenty of food daily doesn't have any real need for hunting, but may kill a bird if it somehow triggers its primal instincts. Some dogs have attacked pet pigs that they known for years.

Yeah I complete agree with this.