Religion

[Turn_Into_Ghosts]

I'm surprised by some of the responses here.

I wouldn't say i'm atheist. I'm open to the idea of the possibility that there "could" be a God.
But i'm doubtful because I have yet to seen proof. And I have some rather harsh judgements about God being fair.

I don't think you'll ever find an honest atheist who would claim to KNOW that there is no god. We don't. Religious people claim to know that, in fact, there definitely IS a god, yet they can't provide a single shred of proof.
I would say it's not impossible but just not very likely, and if there is a god, I'm very sure it is not the god of the bible or any of the other "holy" books.

[kodkilla]

I has a question guys:
Me, I believe in God, I read the bible, I pray, and sing songs about him at church.

Is that still consider a religon? I mean, I always thought religion is when you pratice stuff like the catholics do or the budaism. That, is just doesn't seem like it is a religon.

Yes I would consider it a religion; it's just that you do it in a different way than others, I.E. Catholics. It's all good, just do what you wanna do, except killing, raping, blah blah blah xD

[Spine_Ripper CLOSED ACCOUNT]

I won't say 100% he's not real... but I'm waiting for my proof Jesus/God.

Same here. Hell, many people I know are in this group.

[SSCREM]

In a scientific point of view there is no way to prove god doesnt exist and there is no way to prove he does exist, but the fact remains that religion is all about faith beliving that god exists without any proof and I belive that many people who belive in religion, want to know how they came to be and what is there purpose in life.
Id continue, but im on my mobile and its hard to type on it.
P.s: I think this thread is going a little bit too deap, when I agreed to a debate thread I didnt know it would go this far.

[Eks]

I have, and I work as a biologist in the blood transfusion center. So I had my share with biology few years ago.

What do your duties include? Monitoring bacteria and whatnot?

As I stated, it lacks proofwise. Even university teachers will tell you that Evolution has it's own limits. Many pieces of the puzzle are missing and in the research field they often find themselves in a dead end. Don't be surprised if in 10 years max Darwinism breaks apart. I never said God is real because I refute Evolution. I said I analysed given data and made a choice.

It is accepted as a fact within the overwhelming majority of the scientific realm, so you can't just point out a few small inconsistencies and say the whole theory is crap.

Come on Eks, don't turn around what I said my friend. Or you misunderstood my statement.
I meant that every existing object/organism tend to decay and/or die. Humans get old and die, Plants, trees, insects, buildings, cars, socks, TVs. Everything. Nothing of it is getting better in time.

I didn't understand what you meant, but now that I do, what does this have to do with evolution or the existence of god?

Your examples are perfect examples of why science is needed. It has nothing to do with our debate though. Being a believer dosen't stop you from being a great scientist. Take John Napier, Francis Bacon, Rene Descartes, Isaac Newton, Max Planck, etc...

Never said or implied anything of the sort.

It was supposed to make you laugh . Anyway, the core of evolution is a series of mutations that happens during hundreds (if not thousands) of years. When the mutation is in your DNA, you transmit it with the other genes to your offspring. So, your turn. Give me 1 beneficial mutation that we are aware of...

The overwhelming majority of mutations are essentially innocuous, so I don't really understand how this is a problem. But here's more than one beneficial mutation:
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.html

DNA is far more complex than crystals. The probability of just one DNA arranging itself by chance has been calculated to be 1 chance in 10^119,000. The entire visible universe is 10^28 inches in diameter. (In The Beginning Walt Brown p. 12)

That is a horribly miscalculated statistic. Here's a response from an actual biologist:
"There are only four chemicals that make up the nucleotides of deoxyribonucleic acid, the chemical inside the nucleus of a cell that carries the genetic instructions for making living organisms. A DNA nucleotide is made of a molecule of sugar, a molecule of phosphoric acid, and a molecule called a base. The bases are the "letters" that spell out the genetic code. In DNA, the code letters are A, T, G, and C, which stand for the chemicals adenine, thymine, guanine, and cytosine, respectively. In base pairing, adenine always pairs with thymine, and guanine always pairs with cytosine. Each gene's code combines the four chemicals in various ways to spell out 3-letter "words" that specify which amino acid is needed at every step in making a protein. Every single living organism has DNA, and every single one is made up of A, T, G and C. How these are arranged; and how many base pairs there are tell us what organism it is, and essentially becomes the blueprint of the organism, instructing the cells what to do. This blueprint is read by transcribing stretches of DNA into the related nucleic acid RNA."

To say that four chemicals and a few base pairs forming into DNA is an unlikely occurrence is pretty ludicrous, and she's responding to a statistic that claims it's actually 1/10^400,000, which is far more than your 1/10^119,00. (SOURCE)

Darwin himself: “To suppose that the eye…could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” (The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life. Charles Darwin 1859 p. 217)

Buy the book and read it.

I have read it and you're quote mining. Here's a link to more of the quote to put that statement into its correct context: LINK

Besides Fossils, all you have left is the homology and embryology.
It's the similitude of shapes and structures between living organisms (homology) and the similitude between early stages embryos of different living organisms (embryology).

Homology and embryology are sub-sets of biology, but they are not the only sciences that contain evidence for evolution. Bio-chemistry, which explains how organisms use chemicals to live/reproduce/etc. also contains a lot of evidence for evolution.

He is also the father of racism:


So that really leaves us with fossils.

Him using Darwinian evolution to justify racism does nothing to damage the merit of the theory of evolution, just like being a believer does not mean you'll be a poor scientist.

I don't really see how LUCA is relevant to this discussion since there are other, better ways to prove evolution.

It means that scientist believe that adding energy will stop order from becoming chaos. And so the complex molecules can be formed.

I know what you meant, but WHY do they think adding energy to the equation is a necessary part of evolution?

lol funny vid, who the hell is he? Never heard of him, let's stay in the science field, it's way more interesting .

Miracles, which are unscientific by definition, shouldn't be brought up then.

I would just like to add 1 thing: Evolutionists & Creationists are the same. In both worlds you need faith to believe.
In one you need faith to believe that a supreme being called God exists.
In the second you need faith to believe that 15 billions years ago, from nothing a big bang occured and we got everything. You must “picture” or imagine evolution since we never observe it in the present. It only takes place in the imagination.

In both cases there is no proof. Let your heart or your brains choose!

Wrong. Faith means to believe without reason, and since I have solid evidence for evolution, I do not have faith in it. The Big Bang theory doesn't state that "nothing caused it", and speciation has been observed. Google "examples of speciation".

Peace and Eks you still remain one of my favorite TRMK members

Thanks, but should this discussion affect your opinion of me?

I won't say 100% he's not real... but I'm waiting for my proof Jesus/God.

That's the best you can expect since absolutely disproving something is virtually impossible.

@Turn_Into_Ghosts: Relax and let's have a civil discussion so this thread doesn't get killed.

[Aldo Moreno]

Yes I would consider it a religion; it's just that you do it in a different way than others, I.E. Catholics. It's all good, just do what you wanna do, except killing, raping, blah blah blah xD

But the catholics have different beliefs from us.

[Fox17]

But the catholics have different beliefs from us.

Like I stated before I went 12 years (9 of elementary and 3 of high school *that's argentina's system*) to a catholic school, is the same as protestants, just insignificant changes.

[Eks]

But the catholics have different beliefs from us.

Look up the definition of "religion" and you'll have your answer. Having different beliefs doesn't make something religious.

[Marto]

I am a Christian, i try hard to live my life the way i believe i should.
I also believe that i shouldnt 'force' my beliefs onto other people. I have friends of both religious and non religious backgrounds. I have great friends and if i ever start to feel that 'im right and they're wrong' then i know that im not as good friend as i thought.

I feel that when people find out im christian, they are surprised. Mainly be because of what they expect from a christian is based on the sterotypical type seen on tv and so forth. We Christians can still be fun people to be around!!!

I also find that when people find out im a christian, they ask me questions like "why do you hate gay people?"
First of all, Christians do NOT hate gay people. If a Christian does, then thats his/her own personal opinion and not that of their 'religion'.
As a Christian we are supposed to love EVERYONE, regardless of whether they have wronged us in some way or do something we dont consider right. Now that i think about it, if we were told to hate people for any reason, we would have no friends whatsoever and life would be lonely.
When someone says that i hate gay people, i politely correct them. And ask them a question "So if one day when i have a kid and he/she comes to me and says that they are gay, am i supposed to hate them? It makes them stop and think. And it helps them come to realise their thoughts on christians may be wrong.

Now as a christian, i also believe that others have a right to believe what they do.
I dont appreciate people saying all islamic people are terrorists, i dont like people using the 'religious beliefs' to attack others physically or verbally. I dont consider anyone from any religion (Christian, Islam, hindu, buddist, catholic etc) or non religion (athiest, agnostic etc) to be of higher regard or lower standard than anyone else.

And lastly, No matter what your belief, you still have the right to an opinion

[xkSongblindedxk]

everyone's entitled to their opinions, whether they believe in something or not.. just listen to what their telling you because they got the right to their opinion

[Eks]

Now as a christian, i also believe that others have a right to believe what they do.

You must not be a big fan of the 10 Commandments, but that's cool. I'm not either.

[VictorMefer]

The more I discover about science, the harder I find it not to believe there something above us. There are still many things we don't understand, that can't be proven by science. One example I like is the development of fetuses. The cells begin to multiply, and they are all identical. Then, at some point of the development, the cells begin to diferentiate. It is not known how do each cell know what do they have to do to become the parts of the human body in such an organized way. It's in stuff like that that I believe there's something above us, beyond our understanding.

I do not consider myself as a catholic, though. I was raised in a catholic country, in a catholic family, studied in a catholic church, but there are many things in the Christian beliefs I do not agree. The view of them about homosexualism, for example. Also their view on God. I don't believe God is like what the bible describes him as. He seems as ruthless as Shao Kahn! And I don't believe he's watching us, taking care of all of us all the time. I think he gave us free will for a reason. We do what we want, and deal with the consequences later.

I don't like Church in general. It was created for the sake of controlling people, that we can't deny. Are there good people inside the church, who want the best for everybody? Sure, there are, and I appreciate these people. But there are also a lot of people who want to use people's beliefs for their own benefit, people who want to control everyone.

[BAdass Liu Kang]

Well im a christian 100% never gonna change. i believe faith in god is always a good think to have. i just don't like when people chastise me for being what i am . i mean that in the sense that Christians are always portrayed as the bad guy. when has forgiveness or having kids after marriage been a bad thing?

[BAdass Liu Kang]

thank you! thats how i feel all the time man. portraying Christians to be some perfect person never to do wrong. when in reality its a struggle

[AriesSiren]

watch religulous its a wake up call. personally im atheist. religion is some seriously mental sick stuff. every war or mass murder is started because of religion. this country would benefit 100% if religion never existed. an atheist believes in being the best person they can be. just not worshipping false gods or dieties. thats alot harder than asking a person in the clouds to forgive you for all the horrible things you do. thats a copout. harsh but true. i stay away from religious people. im religaphobic

[BAdass Liu Kang]

but you say every war was started because of religion(not denying that) but that would mean the only reason we have wars is for that reason. not for oil. not out of hate. not for land.

[TaBB3rnackle92]

watch religulous its a wake up call. personally im atheist. religion is some seriously mental sick stuff. every war or mass murder is started because of religion. this country would benefit 100% if religion never existed. an atheist believes in being the best person they can be. just not worshipping false gods or dieties. thats alot harder than asking a person in the clouds to forgive you for all the horrible things you do. thats a copout. harsh but true. i stay away from religious people. im religaphobic

I'm not entirely sure The Civil war was about religion.
But saying religion is a waste of time and athiesm is the way to go is childish.
I respect that you aren't religious but that doesn't mean people who believe are Mentally sick.

[Eks]

Wars are started because of human greed. Religion is a tool used to motivate people into supporting such things.

How are Christians made out to be the bad guy?

[Critical-Limit]

but you say every war was started because of religion(not denying that) but that would mean the only reason we have wars is for that reason. not for oil. not out of hate. not for land.

Well alot of those times.... they used religion as an excuse to get oil... hate... land lol. Even if the attacker isn't using religion aka USA attacking terrorists as a means to fight... the fight was originally initated by the beliefs of those who attacked us in 9/11.

I mean... war's are just Mass fights. When it comes to small fights it's rarely over religion right? it's over something stupid like "who ate the last pudding? or bullying"

War's do it for a much more serious reason... but they often have used religion to cover up true intentions.

I'm sure it's not the case 100% of the time. But it is used often.

[THECORPRATE.]

I believe in god and I go to church almost every Sunday

So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Luke 11:9-12