Batman: Arkham City

Good discussion @Freyith different strokes, ya know. But let's put a pin in that debate.

Because, Kamidogu just posted on FaceBook that, someone in australia broke the "embargo" for arkham city.

For those who don't know an "embargo" is an agreement between a games developers and journalists/retailers saying that in exchange for getting to see a game early that they will only discuss what the developers say they can. And that if a retailer gets the game early they won't break street date.

Just so there won't be leaks/spoilers or fans knowing things before the developers want them to. That would be the hardest job ever. Keeping those tasty gaming secrets to yourself.

Well EB games in australia broke the embargo and is selling copies Kamidogu.com posted that Arkham City is available now?

Don't know how much truth there is to that so don't blame me if it's wrong. But that's what they posted. Guess we will see in the morning.

EDIT-
Okay after researching, its already being sold at all the EB games in AU, Germany and UK and they weren't supposed to get it til friday.

But don't know yet if that will bode well for all of us in the states.

I really ****ing hope that everyone says **** it and just starts selling it tomorrow. That would be epic!
-Edit- As of right now most retailers overseas including gamestop and many other big retailers are selling copies as well.
Hopefully we'll get the game early too, but I seriously doubt it.

Hmm. I think it's pretty evident--with all due respect--from your wall of text that you don't know much about retail operations or overhead. Let's break this down a little.

battle_scarz13 said:

I don't sell my games or trade them. I never put myself in a lose/lose situation like that. Yes there are pro's to trading in your games. Like being able to return them. That's why when I buy a game its not on a whim, I make sure I'm buying something that is worth the money, I read reviews and make sure that I will enjoy it so I'm not stuck with a shitty game.

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You're assuming that published reviews (which make revenue through advertising and business deals with developers as well as their cover price) are always 100% honest, or even have the same outlook on games as any given consumer. This is simply not true, in practically every given case.

battle_scarz13 said:

If you don't believe reselling a game and getting 20% of what you paid right after buying it isn't shady then your perspective is different than mine. Gamestop rips people off pure and simple. Yes they'll make a profit and continue doing it because people keep buying and selling but that doesn't make it okay.

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I asked you before to prove this assertion, and you still haven't. Would you expect to buy a car new, drive it off the lot, and then get 100% the price you paid for it back? If you did, you'd be laughed right out of the lot. Your bit also about the developers/publishers not making a buck on the used market is also a wash too. Stores like EB Games, Gamestop, Best Buy, etc, pay a buy-in price in order to be able to be a licensed dealer for these brands. That's how retail distribution works, at least for large chains. They pay a price in order to carry games say by Warner Brothers. They also pay SCEA/Sony a hefty dealer license buy-in. So in these stores were they also sell new games (I've yet to see a store that only sells used), in order to sell those games alongside the used ones, they're paying money to the publishers.

They're not ripping anybody off. People pay what they are willing to pay. Nobody puts a gun to their heads and tells them to buy Deus Ex for $55 used when they could have it for $59 new. Absolutely no one. There is nothing shady about that.

battle_scarz13 said:

My problem isn't about gamestops business practices in general. Its about developers not getting money that they rightfully should when one copy of a game can be bought and sold 10 times over with gamestop making all the profit. Does that not seem shady to you?

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Nope. If you're going to sell your Camry to someone, do you expect to pay Toyota a royalty?

battle_scarz13 said:

If you like being screwed then sell your games for a drastic loss, if that's your perogative. I choose not to. And as far as games depreciating in value yes the price of a used game will drop faster but a new copy will usually follow suit and drop as well. And yes on disc DLC isn't right either but in this situation its the lesser of two evils. And besides capcom, I don't see on disc DLC as a huge problem. Online passes are becoming prevalent but how is that shady? These companies have to make back a little off what they're losing to gamestop, so they get 10 bucks from the 60 they should rightfully get. That's a shitty deal for them. And gamestop thrives on this kind of back handed ********.

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Wow, don't know where to begin here. :laugh: The $60 they should rightfully get, huh. Do you know who gets the majority of the money from a new game sale? The publisher/distributor. The margins for the store are in fact, very little. Trust me, I know. I worked selling video games. There's practically no margin whatsoever for the stores. Some, but not a lot. When you factor in overhead costs of store operations, most of these retail locations are operating at a loss for the majority of the fiscal year. If it weren't for the used game business, stores like GameStop wouldn't be around to sell you new games. It's the margins from these used games that keep the lights on the times of the year when there aren't new Call of Duty-like blockbusters or Battlefield, or Metal Gear, etc. That is the financial reality. Not 'back-handed ********', as you described it.

As for on-disc DLC, I do think it's 'shady'. Online passes are a nebulous territory, especially considering that some platforms already pay a fee for online access. And even in free systems like PSN, you can say that the online cost is built into the price.

battle_scarz13 said:

A lot of people don't understand the effect this could have on the games industry and I'm just spreading the message.

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It's actually really the reverse. A lot of gamers don't seem to understand what the used market has made the gaming industry into. Plenty of people got into gaming through used games and rentals (another residual market that's become more expensive for consumers because of rising buy-in, licensing and distrubutors' costs). I don't think the console game market would be nearly as big as it is today without there having been a very strong used games market throughout the 1990s and 2000s. Decrying used games now is laughable.

1)Okay to answer your first statement. If you truly believe that every video game reviewer isn't giving an objective opinion. And is only saying what the developer paid them to write that's hyperbole. And to say that a reviewers opinion never truly reflects that of the consumer is ridiculous. I've read plenty of reviews I disagreed with but many more that were on par with my opinion of a game.





2.)No I don't expect 100% of what I paid in but I do expect a reasonable amount. And your point does not matter to me because again I don't sell my games.

And I'm not saying people buying used games are getting ripped off. I'm saying that when people sell or trade in games they're getting ripped off. The only ones getting screwed when you buy used games are developers.

Yes a store has to pay for the right to sell a product but outside of ditribution they pay nothing. Stores like best buy get things in bulk at a good price and then mark it up to make a marginal profit. When dealing with used games nothing that is made off of a used game is seen by either publisher or developer.
They aren't paying the developer for the right to sell used games just new copies.

Why else do you think everyone is selling used games now?
Were in a recession and stores make plenty of profit from it.

Here is an interview with Dax Ginn from Rocksteady where he states that
"buying new is vital to the games industry"
http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=CiULOnoDuCQ

I think you're a little misinformed about where the profits for these games go and according to every developer its not to them.

3.) You comparing the auto industry to the games industry is laughable. Do you know how much profit a manufacturer makes from selling a vehicle? Trust me they aren't going to go under because of a used car salesman. And unlike a game which may see 100 owners a car is going to see only a handful.

4.) And again I know gamestop has to keep their business afloat by selling used games. Your argument is from the perspective of business while mine is more ethical. By buying used you're keeping gamestop in business but taking business away from the creators.

5.) I'm sure you understand that online passes and on disc DLC would not exist if not for used games sells.

Its the cost of business and one of the only ways for game developers to recoup losses.

6.) The used games market only exists because of the size of the games industry. Gaming built the used game market not vice versa.
And the industry would be just as big if not bigger without it.
And soon digital distribution will make places like gamestop obsolete.

You can't seriously tell me that in an industry that's growing as fast as gaming is. That it isn't going to suffer because of used game retailers.
Not only will the price of games rise due to development costs but they'll begin tagging on other costs due to the used games trend.
All in an effort to make a profit and continue making games.
And yes the distributors are making back more money on games but they foot the bill for the people that make them.
And if they don't get paid then neither do the creators.
In the long run its a huge negative for the industry. That's why you don't see great experimental games or studios taking risks as much.
Because games cost too much to make and used games retailers are only adding to the problem.
Its pure ignorance that you don't see this as a problem. Yet NRS, Rocksteady, and countless other developers talk about this being an issue.
How do you think that it isn't?

But in the interest of keeping things civil. I will kindly agree to disagree with you.

I count on developers and publishers saying things like "buying new is vital to the game industry". But, used game sales have been around forever, and so far, it hasn't sunk the boat. I doubt it ever will. Actually, NetherRealm is an excellent example of why I'm fairly unafraid. They are owned by Warner Brothers, which makes a TON of money off of the distribution rights, and now that the development for MK is in-house, their profit margins just grew. Sure, Midway went under before that, but I doubt it was from the sale of used games.

I know not everyone has the chance to look up what store costs are to a franchise, but if you ever get the chance to, do so. It'll change your mind about things. What problems there may be in the royalties wars of developers vs. publishers for the profits from a game, it all happens way before the sale. To top it off, the business model of these ventures is only to sell a certain number of initial copies. The sustained sales over the course of a few months is actually not really too important to them, because they know that maybe only the first few weeks of a game's life will determine whether or not it will break even with development costs. That's why there's such a big hype and run-up to release dates. It's easier to do that than keep a steady interest/awareness up for a particular title.

But, I can't argue a point with someone if they're so in the pocket of the developer talking points that they refuse to see other perspectives on the issue. And let me correct you; I did address people being 'ripped off' (your words) for selling their used game to a store. It will always be a losing proposition. Don't want to feel ripped off? Don't sell the game to the store or trade it in. It's really that simple. Blaming the consumer for the developer's inability to negotiate better pay or a better royalties agreement is completely insane.

Oh, and a hundred owners for a used game? Really? That's stretching the argument fairly thin there, don't you think? I never said the used game market created the gaming industry, by the way. I've no idea how you could infer that from my statements. But it definitely helped grow that industry. It still does. How many people do you think will buy Arkham Asylum used? I wonder how many of them will say, "Gee, well I liked this game a lot, maybe I should buy the new Arkham City,"? Probably a good number.

Developers want to cast the used games market in the same light as illegal downloading and file-sharing. The truth is nowhere near that.

you guys do know this thread is about batman arkham city.

anyway, i hope you dont always have to be in detective mode. its cool but i found it annoying how you pretty much always had to have it on.

Developers are trying to raise awareness about how the used game market is affecting the industry and what will happen if it continues to grow.
Used games are in a big upward trend even more so now than in the last gen of consoles. And yes like movies, game publishers look to earn back their initial costs within the first few weeks of release but that's not what get games made. They have to clear a profit margin first. And you have to factor in not only paying the developers, but advertising in print and commercials, merchandise for the game and so on. That's a huge gap to clear before any actual profit is made. And if they don't clear a decent profit, there will be no Batman 3, which I would like to see come to fruition.
So no not really going to change my mind about wether or not its better to save a few dollars or support the creators of the games that I love to play.

Quan_Chi_13 said:

you guys do know this thread is about batman arkham city.

anyway, i hope you dont always have to be in detective mode. its cool but i found it annoying how you pretty much always had to have it on.

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^sorry man, just debating. And yes detective mode has been revamped. Mainly used just to scope out situations out and plan your attack. I also found that you had to use it as a crutch a little too much when trying to take down armed thugs. Haven't heard anyone speak in depth about it. But have heard in developer interviews that you won't have to rely on it as much.

If you're so concerned with the developers' well being, maybe you should write them a check. Anyhow...

Spending as much time in Detective Mode in AA was probably the worst aspect of the game. It was such a good-looking game, but a lot of it got washed out because you had to spend so much time in Detective Mode. That said, I thought it was a great feature.

What I never understood though was why Batman couldn't ever lay down/crawl. It would have been awesome if he could. I felt in a lot of instances, it'd have been a lot simpler if he could lay down or crawl across an area, or get under an object for cover, Solid Snake-style.

You could crouch and they provided plent of high vantage points (gargoyle's,Rooftops) and air ducts and floor grates to hide in. So being able to crawl or lay wouldn't have added much to the game considering all the ways you could already hide yourself.

Well everyone overseas(Germany,UK,AU) is playing the game. Youtube is flooded with unboxings and even a few walk throughs. They got the game 4 days before they were supposed to. Hope that they just go ahead and break street date here as well.

One more day left before the game comes out. I'm gonna enjoy every second of it.

i'm going to be at the midnight launch tonight at my local gamestop.

I've got my copy. The Collector's Edition is AWESOME. Pics to come. I haven't popped the game into the system yet though.

My local gamestop did not have a midnight launch. One of the disadvantages of living in a small town. But as soon as I drop my son's off at school I'm going to pick it up.

After waiting and waiting, it's finally in my hands!
Batman:Arkham City FTW!

I am retiring to my Bat Cave for the week to bask in all of the glory that is
The Dark Knight

I wasn't too crazy about the 1st game. How different is this one or does it play exactly the same?

If you didn't care for the first one, I am for one shocked. And Arkham City is completely open world, revamped detective mode, added quick attacks to all the gadgets during combat, combat is smoother(which is insane considering how good it already was.) everything is bigger and better. More missions, side missions, riddler challenges, villains. What more can I say its The ****ing Dark Knight! You are definitely missing out man. Give it another shot!

Todays the day! I'll try to get some pictures up of TAS skin in-game; granted, they will be done with my camera (no flash of course as it could damage the LCD) so the definition may not be great, but I'll see what I can do.

I haven't been posting in the past few days because I've been pretty busy, and since this came out, you may not hear from me for a whille. Regardless, I'll try to post some pics of TAS skin in-game, when I get my hands on it. I'm getting it in around an hour, so I can't wait.

I am Vengeance, I am the Night, I AM BATMAN!!!

Won't be able to pick it up today but I got a copy on hold