"Going back to its 'roots'" ??

Jinko

New member
What exactly do you mean when you mention that MK should go back to it's roots?

I haven't played the older MKs the way you guys have. Back then when I played a fake MK1, I only saw it as another fighting game. Then a few years ago, a friend of mine brought MKDA over to my party and I was amazed. That's what started it all. That's what hooked me into Mortal Kombat.

Seeing as I have never truely played MK1 - MK4, I didn't see MKDA and onwards to be a bad game. I actually enjoyed Armageddon. But many of you diehard fans seem to dislike these newer MK games because they didn't feel like the original MKs. So that brings up my question:

What exactly were the roots of the original games?

Recently I have tried to start playing the games that made history. I will not say that I hated them, because I didn't. But they were definitely different. Was it the super fast combos? The unusually hard AI? The fatalities? The blood? The gore?

I ask this to find out how you experienced these older MK games in hope to understand what you hardcore fans really wanted in the newer MKs.
 
I played MK1 first and every game in some order until MK4. After that I went; Deception, DA, SM and Arm. Deception for me felt the best. Arm felt like it went backwards on itself for4 the series and I haven't play Vs. DC.

Visually and storyline though, DC felt the nicest put together even if the MK fans don't like it as a DC fan I can enjoy it still.

Actually from a never played point of view, vs. DC looked more like it had pulled off successfully a combo of new and old MK in it which even the others didn't pull off. It LOOKED like MK was taking its first steps to the future, even if its not what folks want on the MK side.

I too question the roots thing at times. MK was meant to be a short joke and to call it to go back to its roots is almost saying "lets go back to being a joke". MK2 isn't meant to be a joke because MK was more popular then Boon and co thought it would be and they had to push it forward on the bits folks liked. Its a "tongue in cheek" approach to things.

All thoughts aside on that matter, if things look as good as they did in Vs DC, I'd like to see them continue that. Don't forget, Vs. Dc has come out with the best track record for a MK game in a long while, its a shame its riddled with its problems from the MK fans side. The magazines were saying (in my country) its a step in the right direction for MK, and I'll agree on that statement. Its a shame they also more or less said "Finally MK's now at an average fighting game level for the first time in years" instead of "Its better then most fighting games". Which is the problem Boon and co now have to overcome, how to turn MK back into top tier.
 
I also liked the gameplay/direction/graphics of MK vs. DCU. If the game had instead been a full-blown Mortal Kombat title with the signature Mortal Kombat tone, critics would hail it as a huge step forward for the series. The "hardcores" 2D nuts wouldn't have liked it, but who cares? I wouldn't be surprised if MK9 plays a lot like MK vs. DCU; just as MK4 seemed like (somewhat of) a test with 3D, MK vs. DCU might test the waters with that kind of gameplay. If MK9 builds off of the MK vs. DCU system (in the signature, darker mature tone), I'm totally game. MK9 is my most anticipated game of 2010, alongside Super Street Fighter IV.


I actually enjoyed Armageddon. But many of you diehard fans seem to dislike these newer MK games because they didn't feel like the original MKs.

That's because they don't want to leave the 90s, and think every game should be based on MK2/UMK3. Those games are still popular, but for nostalgia's sake. I loved playing MK2 and UMK3 growing up, but I'm not 6-12 anymore, and I don't want to play newer titles that are based on the exact same mechanics. Fighting games (hell, video games as a whole) have evolved well beyond MK2/UMK3. Fortunately, Ed Boon (seems to) realizes this, too.

If MK9 isn't a 2D game, then some of the "hardcores" shouldn't even bother, because we already know they'll have a laundry list to whine about. Honestly, they just stick to playing MK2/UMK3 in 2010 if the series continues to move forward. There is no need for the series to move backwards, just to satisfy the select few who can't accept anything beyond MK2/UMK3.
 
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That's because they don't want to leave the 90s, and think every game should be based on MK2/UMK3. Those games are still popular, but for nostalgia's sake. I loved playing MK2 and UMK3 growing up, but I'm not 6-12 anymore, and I don't want to play newer titles that are based on the exact same mechanics. Fighting games (hell, video games as a whole) have evolved well beyond MK2/UMK3. Fortunately, Ed Boon (seems to) realizes this, too.

Try the Sonic the Hedgehog fandom, always crying for a 2D Sonic game. Blah, I had a thing for retro games but when I play them recently I can't see the attraction to most that they'd have today. Times have moved on. A lot of it has been cause by MEGAMAN'S recent step backwards though and its kinda annoying. I see no need for a pure 2D MK game when other fighters are still exploring what they can do with 3D. While Street Fighter insults progress forward by going backwards a little bit, I'll admit they finally did it the right way and not the wrong way like they did in the PS1 days.

And believe me... Saying the new game isn't a bad attempt is saying a lot for me since I gave up on SF thanks to the glory of my early internet experience and the ripening of my love for manga and anime with the SF fans! >_<'

Still, theres also the "dark" aspect which I think is where a lot of people want. But how "dark?" Deception was pretty "dark" if you ask me. Its only V.s DC that wasn't and thats due to its nature.

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KS, my most awaited is MK9 and "Project Needlenose".

Most of the other franchises I once followed through from my younger years are dead like Duke Nuk'em

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Oh and Diablo 3, if thats due out next year too.
 
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Honestly, when I say it's "roots" I mean with it being based heavily in chinese mythology with tactfully gruesome fatalities without any of that giant boot or burning farts nonsense. As far as gameplay is concerned, I actually want it to play more like Soul Calibur or Tekken, honestly. I've never been good at 2D fighters and I doubt I ever will be. But I am quite good at Soul Calibur and some other 3D fighters. I want an MK game with the same kind of content (possibly with character creation) that will last me as long as SC2 and SC4 did.

The roots of MK were when it wasn't downright ridiculous. MK3 was a step in the wrong direction as far as I'm concerned. Characters like Nightwolf and Stryker just don't fit with the world of MK1 and 2. Havok is the only character I can say I really really like from the MKDA trilogy. So when I say "back to it's roots" I mean "like MK2" but I also don't mean to imply we return to the GAMEPLAY of it's roots at all.
 
I also liked the gameplay/direction/graphics of MK vs. DCU. If the game had instead been a full-blown Mortal Kombat title with the signature Mortal Kombat tone, critics would hail it as a huge step forward for the series. The "hardcores" 2D nuts wouldn't have liked it, but who cares? I wouldn't be surprised if MK9 plays a lot like MK vs. DCU; just as MK4 seemed like (somewhat of) a test with 3D, MK vs. DCU might test the waters with that kind of gameplay. If MK9 builds off of the MK vs. DCU system (in the signature, darker mature tone), I'm totally game. MK9 is my most anticipated game of 2010, alongside Super Street Fighter IV.




That's because they don't want to leave the 90s, and think every game should be based on MK2/UMK3. Those games are still popular, but for nostalgia's sake. I loved playing MK2 and UMK3 growing up, but I'm not 6-12 anymore, and I don't want to play newer titles that are based on the exact same mechanics. Fighting games (hell, video games as a whole) have evolved well beyond MK2/UMK3. Fortunately, Ed Boon (seems to) realizes this, too.

If MK9 isn't a 2D game, then some of the "hardcores" shouldn't even bother, because we already know they'll have a laundry list to whine about. Honestly, they just stick to playing MK2/UMK3 in 2010 if the series continues to move forward. There is no need for the series to move backwards, just to satisfy the select few who can't accept anything beyond MK2/UMK3.


I disagree, I've been thinking that for the longest time that they would do better if they went back to their roots abit, it seems to be that they've lost touch with what mk use to be, and that all of these changes in gaming has forced the team into a corner, now they are focusing on create a fatalities and more exclusive online game play rather than what use to be good to us and what still is god to us now. I personally still love and cherish the old games and think that by going back and using old ideas with a fresh spin on them would be great, they make dozens of new characters all the time and they collect to 60 plus! not that there's anything wrong with that but with all of those characters, it's so much harder to focus on them all and release a good game in time. Even bringing back the old MK theme that pretty much everyone knows to introduce the new MK game. Keep the same fighting styles as in MK:DA and iron out those stories that we've been dreaming up for so long. Actually make MK short vid's for each character ending or revert back to the old slideshow with a Raiden narrative. Just some of the things I would do to improve it. But I believe as usually, that the game will be a big success to all of the MK fans regardless of what they do to it.
 
I think that going back to MK2 and 1 would be very wise choices because it would definitely show MK fans both new and old what MK represents and what MK actually is about. I have thought up several good ways to "fix" the storyline of MK:Armageddon by simply going back to the old days (not like going back in time or anything). By focusing on the story and how it should end up will definitely help them in developing and perfecting all of the characters we know and love. Going back to it's roots is something that they should definitely consider....since I've looked online for info about the very anticipated MK9, most of what I gathered was just exclusive and throughout focus on just online content and game play rather than the more important things; like offline game play, characters, story lines, etc. Whatever they do, I'll enjoy it though, I bought Mk:A the day it came out! so I'll enjoy this one too!
 
I mself am tired of seeing the MK1 - MK 4 storyline. Nice as it WAS to keep dragging it out every 5 years just prevents the storyline moving forward. While I enjoy the storyline, why should the writers they need to recon a piece of background information all the time? This has been another one of my off puts to the SF series, and even the SC series doesn't seem to progress that much per storyline, adding just a paragraph of biography every game on top of what it was last time and virtually nothing more. Its also a sign of bad story telling in the first place if you have to keep going back to adjust things after the first print, but also an annoyance to fans who want to debate with others as they have to stop and think what the last update changed. Top it off, the MK storyline was not broken until the MK3 era, then fully broken by the time MK Vs DC came out due to the (yet again) inclusion for Shinnok storyline that never was in that era (since I presume that MK2 era was when the storyline was written for). Heck, Shoalin Monks and other in between games didn't help and broke the storyline as it was when they were released.

So yes, as NICE as the storyline is WHY should MK have to be always stuck in the past?

Where is the progress FORWARD if you keep taking steps BACK.

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Why should MK have to remain as it always has been, just to satisfy the fans it has instead of preventing itself from reaching out to new fans. How many times have I heard fans of other series who never played the old MK games turned round and dissed MK because they don't have the love and the value of it we have - plenty of times. If you can't get the game across to new blood, then your relying on old blood.

New flash guys - none of us are getting any younger and we're not going to be around forever. As the older fanbase dies, no one is there to replace us right? Even Boon himself isn't a spring chicken anymore.

Iroically I compare this to the "Adventure Comics" problem of trying to appeal to its retro fan audience, which last time I checked accounted for just 20% of the comic books sales. They made a mess of the storylines of all comics forward, but stupidity made a bigger mess when they wrote themselves into a corner and tried to fall back on what their older fans wanted, presuming that they knew what was the best as they were fans when the comics were popular. WRONG move. If they wrote themselves into a corner badly, they should have written themselves out by asking the MODERN fans what appealed to them as the older fans and newer fans won't have the same views, ideals and interests, multi-universe ruined DC comics best storylines.

For me of the Legion of Super Heros, what they call V.2 is the most appealing because it had the late 80-late 90s appeal to it. I can't get into the pre-late 80 stuff or the V.3 era that start early this decade. Their not MY era. For MK, I can easily accept the MK1-4 games, because their also my era, as well as MK Vs. DC because its on my two favorite things. But, there are many fans who can only accept the MK5-Mk Vs DC era because its THEIR era.

Another example is Doom, Doom2 and other shoot'em ups to Duke Nuk'em 3D. Again MY era shoot 'em ups and I loves them to bits but newer gamers might not share my love because their too riddled with gaming flaws we never saw or had to deal with at the time. Halo, not my era of shoot'em ups, its not got the same appeal to me as the modern gamers have.

Maybe its the whole "80s remake" era thats going on at the moment, but you know what as much as I LOVED the 80s, I don't live in them anymore and while the new Karate Kid movie tickles my interest, even with Jackie Chan in it its not going to be quite the Karate Kid or have the same appeal.
 
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Again, a majority of the complaints about the more-recent MK games are from those 2D nuts on the Internet who can't/refuse to understand that it's not 1996 anymore. They are also the same people who piss and moan about the new game play and new characters, never minding the fact that UMK3 and MK2 both had incredibly imbalanced (or "broken") game play (especially when playing the computer), and were equally guilty of having some dumb characters (Baraka, Nightwolf, Ermac, anyone?) as well. There is no need for Team MK to move backwards, just because the 2D nuts can't learn to play the games and/or develop some skills in the new 3D era. Once again, the 2D nuts should probably just stick to playing their nostalgic games and not even bother with MK9, unless Team MK makes the mistake of actually giving in to their lame complaints and demands for the next game.

The story from Deadly Alliance to Armageddon is just fine, and the series actually moves forward. The only trouble story-wise with Armageddon is that no end was revealed. But, I suppose the ambiguity of the end left the team a little bit of wiggle room, so they could decide for sure where they want to take the series next. Just as long as the ending is fully explained in MK9, it won't be any problem, and the wait will more than justify itself. Personally, I'm all for the idea of a new cast led by Daegon and Taven, with veterans like Liu Kang (serving as the new protector of Earthrealm) and Scorpion (still a neutral assassin-for-hire) appearing every now and then in smaller roles. But, to keep recycling the same characters for main roles in a series with a clear time line is a little silly and detrimental to the progression of the entire story.
 
Its the same set of gamers who complain for Sonic in 3D and not Sonic in 2D. And even if you give them what they want, you've gone back on yourself and you can ONLY doing that for so long. How many times can you rewrite the same game? Not many times I'm afraid. Its like rewriting pacman over and over again as they do currently. Okay their GOOD but the game is still the same game it was more or less as when it was first made. And no matter how you remake pacman I'm still going to be one of those gamers who find the game unattractive and dull.
 
It always comes back to Sonic somehow. But come on, Pac-Man is deep as hell. You can move up, you can move down, you can eat dots, you can move up and down and eat dots. The possibilities are endless.

As for going back the roots of MK, that's more or less what they attempted to do in MK vs. DC, as far as combat goes. I think the essence of MK's fighting engine is the idea of exploiting vertical space for juggling combos. No other fighting series has really put as much of an emphasis on this, so in that aspect, it makes MK's engine truly unique as well as somewhat underrated. The lack of this focus is what I see as being the main problem in the 3D games, and why as much as I enjoyed them at the time, I'm not likely to revisit them.
 
Well Sonic is the first game series that comes to mind thats been with us from 2D to 3D and STILL is with us. Mario, MK, SF... These kind of series are our gaming legends. And Sonic is the first example of how a series you've stuck with can have a huge hiccup aside from MK itself.

Pacman Vs. for the DS isn't too bad. Thats fun, except if your pacman.
 
MKvsDCU seemed to make 2D work fairly well. While it's not truly 2.5D like Street Fighter, making the jump button as up and side-stepping a separate button was a step forward in the right direction.

I honestly think the only thing that should return to 2D are the fatalities. Don't know about you guys but seeing the fatalities without the new camera angles might make the old school fans feel 'at home'.
 
I honestly think the only thing that should return to 2D are the fatalities. Don't know about you guys but seeing the fatalities without the new camera angles might make the old school fans feel 'at home'.

I actually think a more agressive camera system, cuts, fades, etc can make the whole fatality thing seem much more "cinematic" and gritty than just leaving the camera sit there on the side like the old school ways. Done right, it could look very neat and less "lets rotate around in circles as we perform the fatality."

As far as gameplay goes, a stick 2D plane is what most want and I have a feeling we'll be getting after seeing the direction they went in MKvsDC. It was more 2.5D, but I think they need to cut off the side stepping and make the game "play" like the old ones did with some new gameplay mechanics with regards to a world that isn't a set square/circle fighting arena.
 
I love the idea of sidestepping. The trouble they had with it in MKvDC was not a problem with the concept itself, but the fact that nearly ALL moves could be dodged by it. They made all the special attacks and most of the combos exclusively exist in the 2D vertical plane. Throw in a few horizontal moves so that sidestepping stops being an invincible defense.
 
There's nothing wrong with being able to counter techniques and special moves with side steps; it disables a player's ability to spam the crap out of something, and thus, forces both fighters to actually fight and challenge one another with different strategies and techniques. A fight shouldn't enable spamming, because that's not competitive fighting; that's just who can tap buttons the fastest, which is lame.

Flash's running thing is among the few moves that were hard to combat spamming.
 
I liked the gameplay on MK vs DCU better than I loved DA through Armageddon, It felt as if MK were doing something right, shooting fireballs in the air, been a while seen I seen that, MK vs DC felt more 2D than 3D. Going back to the 2d roots, I simply don't mind that, as long as gameplay moves smooth and well balance, that way MK will be back on top, where it belongs.
 
The game should definitely use 3D Polygons HOWEVER I would like to see the gameplay restricted to a 2D plane like SF4. SF4 proved by going back to the basics can do very well and I would like to see MK9 do the same. MK just never seemed to work in 3D MK vs DCU and MK4 was decent cause it played more 2D though it was 3D game.

We also need more eerie settings and backgrounds
 
The only thing about 2D is you fight a guy in arena, he and you don't have a line to fight on. For me 3D is more realistic. And its not like side stepping really is a big thing. At the end of the day, you still fight on that invisible line its just you can move the line by side stepping when you feel. Its not a full "roaming in the arena" style of fighting.
 
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